Varnishing and so on

[XQSME]

I am keen to restore my 1969 Alb to a beautiful glassy varnished finish and have been researching as much as I can on the CVRDA website, when you remove old varnish which has been applied with thinners, you don't really ever see any evidence of the thinned varnish penetrating the wood to provide protection from the inside.

So my current thinking is to apply a saturant first (something like Deks Olje 1) and then apply a traditional hard varnish in layers on top of that before polishing....

anyone have any experience of this sort of thing or thoughts on the subject?

[Ed]

With good quality wood, whether ply or solid, there is little penetration as long as there is no rot.

But I don't think you will get noticeably much more with a 'saturant' unless it is applied with pressure or submerged for a long period in a tank. Wood, especially marine-ply is just pretty waterproof.

Where you will get some benefit is when the wood is less than in perfect condition, by using either a pliable saturant/sealant like an oil or a hard saturant/sealant like Eposeal, CPES, Ronseal Woodhardener, Blakes Woodseal, (if you can find it) or well thinned G4. As long as the wood is really dry, the sealant/primer will be drawn into the wood/ply and firm up the surface, making it stronger, and improving the chance of the top-coats staying in place.

Deks Olye 1 might work for this. I am afraid I have never used it and never been that impressed with boats covered with it, although i am sure others will say different. I might consider it for a working boat, but for a racing boat, especially a Fairey boat, I think I would prefer a harder primer, and in past would of used Blakes Woodseal. These days, I would use G4 or possibly CPES.

Top coating would be a traditional soft single pack: Spontan, Schooner, Epiphanes

Good luck

eib

[cweed]

this is a really useful page..........

http://www.collars.co.uk/uk_galaxy/info ... arnish_tip

[davidh]

XQSME,

I've been spending some time with people from International Paints/Azko Nobel and have to say that their new Awl Wood is just the business. It is interesting that the professionals are now using AwlWood - one only has to look at the finish Chris Somner got on Nessa's 14 to see just how good it really gets. But the best thing is that even a careful amateur/home builder can still get a superb gloss finish. As the Int. Paints guys say, the product has helped de-mystify the black art of varnishing. The best bit is the rapid cycling, if you have got some warmth in the workshop 3 coats a day is possible, 2 coats easy. Of course you need to have control over the environment - for dust as much as anything, but now I've used Awl Wood I'd say it gives the likes of me a better finish than I'd have otherwise expected - I'll leave a picture of the boat at the end of this posting.

Dowsides - well, I'd be very careful with my own well being; I wore latext gloves and masks throughout. You don't have any mixing to do, the top coat is single tin BUT.... and here is the one big downside, the price is significantly higher that conventional varnish. But if you want that deep gloss, then cough up, get the best.....and then relax, for even once cure, the top coat retains a degree of flex - great for older wooden hulls and decks.

Good luck and - post a picture (s)

D

[XQSME]

Thankyou all - great tips and a fantastic picture...

It will be a while as I want to sail as far as possible in to the winter and then wait for a little warmth to varnish but I will post pics when done

[XQSME]

Thanks for everything so far - lots of varnishes I have looked at state "above waterline only"...should this be read as gospel - is there a product to varnish my hull - or does it not really matter?

[davidh]

XQSME,

Worry not - this would only be an issue if your were doing, for an example, a DayBoat that might well get left on a mooring for an extended period of time. For normal dinghy use, varnishes and finishes are fine.

D

[JimC]

Thanks for everything so far - lots of varnishes I have looked at state "above waterline only"...should this be read as gospel - is there a product to varnish my hull - or does it not really matter?

Think you'll find they mean above the waterline on boats that live in the water, so the varnish isn't suitable for permanent immersion. Which in turn explains why everything goes pearshaped if there's a permanent puddle in the bottom of the boat...

[XQSME]

So I have been through all the advice and searched all over for the most cost effective method of getting a lovely finish to my Albacore...I had another suggestion, to use boiled linseed oil mixed with paraffin 50/50 , rub this in to the wood, the paraffin carries the oil in and evaporates...then use a varnish finish on top for a glossy coat.

Linseed is far cheaper to use...what do you think? Would it blacken as it ages etc etc? Anmy experience of this?

[Ed]

When I first got Merlin 6 Iska, she was totally dried out with gaps between the lands of between 1/16th up to 1/8th or more. I was really worried about the dryness and brittleness of the wood and asked an 'Old Tar' down in Bristol Harbour for any recommendation on how to try and re-vitalise the wood. He suggested soaking the wood in linseed oil/turpentine, which I subsequently did.

Did it do anything awful....no I don't think so.....Did it help.....maybe, really hard to be sure. Although Iska is still on the water being sailed and looks way better than she ever did when I had her. But to be honest, I think this has much more to do with the work put in by Chris B.

But, nonetheless, it was a pretty horrible experience. I think I used a litre or maybe two and to be honest 99% of this ended up on the floor, in my clothes, in my hair and in sticky puddles all over the boat. It took for ever to clear up and longer to dry. Didn't have any problems with adhesion.....and maybe it helped.....it was just pretty horrible to do.

So.....my opinion....a big 'maybe'.

Sorry, in my opinion, a Fairey hull won't benefit from this treatment. Maybe an old dried up mahogany boat would, but a agba veneer boat wouldn't really benefit in my opinion. You would only ever get to the outer layer anyway and Agba is really resinous.

You want something generally harder for this. A good primer followed by a nice traditional varnish.

cheers

eib

[XQSME]

So , more about this planned refurb of my old Alb.

having looked online and so on , most decnt varnish seems to be around £25 to £35 per litre....However , happened to be in Homebase and B&Q over the weekend whiere they sell "Ronseal Yacht varnish" for around £32 for 2.5 litres....

Any thoughts? I can't think of any real downsides...

not so much of a purist to turn my nose up at a similar product varnish for half the price...

[JimC]

Smart money is that the cheaper product is less sophisticated formulation and less weather and/or UV resistant. If your boat has an excellent cover, is kept dry and comes indoors for the winter before the first frost it probably won't matter that much.

[XQSME]

Thanks Jim..

yes , my cover is good and will be indoors over winter from end Nov (which uis when the work is planned) - I think I'll go for it..

[Ed]

Would be interested to hear how you get on with the Ronseal 'Yacht Varnish'.

I have to say that my experience of using 'DIY' varnishes has not been good at all and I have always regretted it.

When looking for a cheap varnish, I have used Yotun Spontan.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JOTUN-SPONTAN ... 3ca0a91b35 is £55 for 5 litres, or http://www.baysidemarine.co.uk/jotun-sp ... 1321-p.asp for under £10 a litre....

They used to sell it in 2.5l cans also - maybe still do.

But at this price for a 'proper' yacht varnish, you can't go far wrong.

their Ravilak is more expensive, but a wonderful varnish for a more traditional finish. https://www.smlmarinepaints.co.uk/varnishes/ravilakk

cheers

eib

[chris]

I think in the end cheap varnish isn't cheap if you have to keep redoing it. I bought some once from a DIY shop to varnish a front door. It was called Yatch Varnish but then in small print it actually said' not for marine use'! It didn't last well on the front door either. That was about 30yrs ago so things might be better now. Epifanes may seem expensive but because you add thinners to all the early coats it goes further than you think. I don't think you can beat it for depth of colour, ease of application, and final result if you want to go traditional.

I have used the linseed oil/turpentine trick on a clinker mahogany hull too. It takes many days/weeks before you can varnish over it but I felt it did put something back into very dried out wood and has lasted very well. As Ed said though a hot moulded hull will have more glue absorbed anyway so oiling probably will have minimum benefit.