flaps or self bailers - your opinions please..

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XQSME
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Location: Llangorse SC

flaps or self bailers - your opinions please..

Post by XQSME » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:44 pm

Good afternoon

I have removed the Anderson type bailers from the hull for inspection and things there weren't good. So I have the option , as I can see that holes in the transom have been filled at some stage, to fit transom flaps instead and block the holes in the hull.... fewer holes in the bottom the better?

Is it worth the expense of new self bailers or is it satisfactory to go back to transom flaps?

Your thoughts on the pros and cons please

Thanks

Tim
1965 Albacore No 1775 "XQSME"
previous = 1962 Wayfarer W170 "Peter Pan"
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phil58490
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Re: flaps or self bailers - your opinions please..

Post by phil58490 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:39 pm

Personally I would much rather have self bailers as they are very much more useful. I sail Solos and they ship some water going through waves the transom flaps are only of use in a capsize but only then if you can get the boat going fast enough to get the bow up and the water flowing towards the stern. They only get a proportion of the water out and the bailers take care of the rest.

I also find that transom flaps let water in when launching, mine were sealed with sticky tape and only opened after a capsize if I had managed to fill it up by climbing over L*ser style. A Solo normally comes up with little water in it and the self bailers were the only way to get rid of the water in a part filled boat.
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Graham L
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Re: flaps or self bailers - your opinions please..

Post by Graham L » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:53 pm

Hi Tim

You don't say what the problem is but I assume that by your comment on thinking about getting new bailers that the problem lies there rather than with the wood of the hull where the bailers are mounted? The good news is that you can get new inner and outer seal kits for the bailers and if they are the older type they will come apart quite easily, so overhaul would be my preferred option.

As for transom flaps, I just use the thin perspex sheet you can get from P&B and cut to size. I then hold it in place with a light tension on a shock cord over a small hook mounted on the hog. I have never had any problems with water getting in either when launching or when I lean over the stern to drop the rudder.

Regards

Graham
Alb 5893 & 5894

XQSME
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Re: flaps or self bailers - your opinions please..

Post by XQSME » Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:40 pm

Thanks both,.

Yes Graham you are right, bailers are the problem rather than the wood. I will have a look for a service kit the and hope to resolve there.
I always had a feeling last year that water was coming in through the closed bailers and having removed them, I am unable to close them completely, and of course the seals are altogether shot.
1965 Albacore No 1775 "XQSME"
previous = 1962 Wayfarer W170 "Peter Pan"
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JimC
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Re: flaps or self bailers - your opinions please..

Post by JimC » Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:48 pm

Its not either or really: as I said last time this was asked...

Basically (and over simplified):

A bucket works in any wind conditions and should be used when the boat is so full of water that you can hardly move. Its unlikely to be usable when sailing normally, and won't shift the last few gallons. All boats with buoyancy bags should carry a bucket. Most/many boats with bow tanks and generous sized full length side tanks will get away without a bucket.

A hand bailer works in any wind conditions, shifts less water than a bucket but can be used while sailing along and to get the last of the water out. Every non-self draining boat should carry a hand bailer.

Transom flaps work at moderate speed when the boat still has a lot of water in provided that you trim the boat and set the course to suit the working of the transom flaps, not where you want to go, and provided there's enough wind to get the boat up to a moderate speed. The elastic is to pull the flaps firmly shut: it won't act as an effective valve, so the string needs to be released and recleated as necessary.

Self bailers work when the majority of the water is removed, and the boat will sail at reasonable speed. They will work on any point of sailing provided the boat is making a reasonable speed through the water, and do not require special trim, but below a given boat speed/wind strength they won't work. They will also deal with spray coming on board in almost all conditions.

sam mason
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Re: flaps or self bailers - your opinions please..

Post by sam mason » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:40 pm

Jim C put it perfectly. If you intend to sail in big wind you need both. If its either/or bailers first because flaps are only any real use after a full swamping. If the bailers are flush fit from the outside of the hull they can be resealed ASSUMING THEY ARE NOT BENT. If flush fit from the inside they need replacing. Ebay is a happy hunting ground.
Sam

mph1977
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Re: flaps or self bailers - your opinions please..

Post by mph1977 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:59 am

I agree with both Jim and Sam

Michael Brigg
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Re: flaps or self bailers - your opinions please..

Post by Michael Brigg » Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:17 am

JimC wrote:Its not either or really: as I said last time this was asked...

Basically (and over simplified):

A bucket ...
A hand bailer ...
Transom flaps...
Self bailers...
This is in danger of trying to debate "What the Romans ever did for...Sailing

You forgot the most important one...But mine is of Mediterranean origin...
"Sponge..."
Works in any conditions, though not much use above force 1-2

Most useful for..Y'er average CVRDA boat with ribs, or complicated bits in the bottom of the boat that prevent you from using a sensible Scoop bailer, and an annoying steady leak from somewhere.

Stick the sponge in the bottom, leave it a few seconds, squeeze it out into a bucket, and repeat, endlessly, throughout the entire race :evil:

This is the owners job, because he is too ashamed to ask his crew to do it.

Also you can use the sponge as a bung (which you lost / forgot etc.) Tear off a biggish bit and stuff it in the hole. Will last all season, far better than the original.
Michael Brigg

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trebor
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Re: flaps or self bailers - your opinions please..

Post by trebor » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:49 am

Plus they make good missiles 8)
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roger
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Re: flaps or self bailers - your opinions please..

Post by roger » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:47 pm

A short term solution for leaky self bailers is to smear a little silicone sealant around the joins from underneath. It stops the leaks when you don't need them and is easy to push away when you need to open them.
I say short term but I think I used this method for a number of years. Far cheaper and less hassle than a new gasket set.
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