Swift 419

share hints, tips and experiences
Stephen Hawkins
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Re: Swift 419

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:54 am

Well done Michael, great progress.

Do you ever get a chance to sail your boats?

:D

Steve
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

Michael4
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Re: Swift 419

Post by Michael4 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:57 pm

Steve,

You forget that I am retired...
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PeterV
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Re: Swift 419

Post by PeterV » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:49 pm

Looks really good, you may well be sailing before me.
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chris
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Re: Swift 419

Post by chris » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:40 am

Stephen Hawkins wrote:Well done Michael, great progress.

Do you ever get a chance to sail your boats?

:D

Steve

When are we going see Planet sailing at an event again? There was a similar aged 12 sailing well at Aldeburgh.

Michael4
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Re: Swift 419

Post by Michael4 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:07 pm

I rarely go north of the A27 these days...
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Ed
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Re: Swift 419

Post by Ed » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:25 pm

Beautiful job! Very well done. looks absolutely gorgeous.

eib
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Michael4
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Re: Swift 419

Post by Michael4 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:10 pm

The camera lies...
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Re: Swift 419

Post by Michael4 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:59 am

Rudders...

I have two sets. On one set I have removed the ironmongery for a little remedial welding.

The first pic shows the two sets as they came and as they have always been used. At first glance they do seem small.

ImageDSC01863 by dralowid, on Flickr

In the second pic I have reversed the blade on one of them to see how it looks. In my mind it doesn't really look right at all. Bear in mind that the transom is raked so the tillers are in effect horizontal in use or nearly so.

ImageDSC01864 by dralowid, on Flickr

Dunno. Inclined to leave them and see how we go but comments welcome.

Dagger boards.

I'm a bit worried about dagger boards. I sail up and down the harbour using the centreboard as an depthfinder. Occasionally I hit hard things. This wouldn't be so good with dagger boards. I wonder if anyone has ever tried cutting the corner off the leading edge in the hope that they would be more likely to rise up when bashing something? OK so I would be losing some surface but what do you think? Worth a try or pointless?

See pic, red tape marks suggested cut.

ImageDSC01865 by dralowid, on Flickr
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JimC
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Re: Swift 419

Post by JimC » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:17 pm

The rudders seem reasonable, leading edge parallel to the pivot and all that.

I don't see slicing a corner off the daggerboard gaining you anything at all to be honest. If it really worries you maybe a sacrificial balsa wood tip to the foils? But it looks to be pretty shallow draft. Maybe avoid using the plywood depth sounder?

If I were really worried and not racing I suppose I might consider having some sort of physical device. I have a vision of 9 inches of rod projecting from the bottom of each daggerboard with a pivot and a bell crank to a shaft leading up through each daggerboard and an indicator at the top. But that's really getting silly!

Michael4
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Re: Swift 419

Post by Michael4 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:44 pm

For PeterV

ImageSwiftscan247 by dralowid, on Flickr
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Ed
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Re: Swift 419

Post by Ed » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:41 pm

OK, my thoughts for what they are worth...

those rudders look absolutely fine to me. I certainly wouldn't turn them around. If I was really worried about grounding them out, I might consider putting a safety snap-up cleat on the manogomy ones, but don't think I would really bother about the ply ones.

Same for the daggerboards. I wouldn't cut them down, I might round them off to about a 2 to 3 in radius but that would be it. And again, if they are ply, would consider them sacrificial anyway. I hate to tell you this, but in my humble opinion, ply boards/rudders will break, it isn't a case of 'if' but simply 'when'. with classic boats, we must come to terms with the fact it is going to likely be sooner rather than later. But to be honest, how long are they? The hull is pretty deep and these look like they are going to only come down a couple of foot? I really wouldn't worry about it. If you break em, you will replace them with something nicer anyway. What does worry me about the concept of grounding out in a fast cat is the possible damage to the hull this might cause. How strong is it here? You might prefer the concept of using a ply board that will likely self-destruct on impact very quickly, rather than a strong laminated or sheathed board which transfers the impact to the case? This is all conjecture, I have no idea on the variables here to be able to make any kind of guess.

But I don't think it should be a big worry. I manage to sail an IC with a 1m dagger with only the occasional 'feck-it' moment, when boat stops dead, but I don't....

The thing I wanted to say though was....that although I have always wanted a classic Catamaran, I have found it hard to really come up with a boat that seemed like it would be right. I like the Shearwater, but it's such a big boat. I love the Unicorn, but whenever I discuss it, Alan always sits me down, gets all serious and avuncular and tells me to come to my senses...and then there is the A-class. Not even I have the nerve for that......but, but, but....

Anyway, I have never really known or thought about the Swift and when you guys started your re-builds, I just wasn't that into them, but the more I look at them, the more I like em and I am just really enjoying this thread. So keep it up and I look forwards to someone giving me a sail at some stage in the future...

Oh....and finally.....just a quick question for those more knowledgeable on cats than me...

In the photos of 419, there are what look like footstraps on the inside of the rear hulls? What are these about? Just for manhandling? or am I missing something.

Anyway, very jealous and keep up the good work.

Best wishes

eib
Ed Bremner
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PeterV
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Re: Swift 419

Post by PeterV » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:55 pm

I sailed my previous cat in lots of shallow water at Leigh on Sea and further up the coast. As Jim and Ed have said the boards are fairly shallow and so I cannot remember hitting the ground fast, you tend to know in time when the water's getting shallow. And as Michael probably doesn't want to take the decks off to find out what's at the bottom of the daggerboards one of the views of my hull will show that it's pretty well reinforced with a shaped block around the case that extends about 3" fore and aft and about 1.5" each side.

I thought I had a better picture, but the front of the block can be seen here, the back is the same.
Image

I was wondering if I needed a foot loop at the back of the hulls, but I didn't think of trapezing off the leeward hull!
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Michael4
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Re: Swift 419

Post by Michael4 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:20 am

The yellow straps at the stern are very useful handles, makes lifting the back of the boat easy.

Thanks for the 'insides' pic. I will be cautious.

419's hulls show the effects of hitting things hard with dagger boards. Repairs to the slot at the front at deck height and at the back on the hull itself. Quite a lot of glass here and there which being sound I have left well alone.
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alan williams
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Re: Swift 419

Post by alan williams » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:07 am

Hi Michael
My Shearwater always had small rudders. The Prout boats are beautifully balanced and donot require anything bigger. Re: daggers I would not worry to much about them. A friend of mine fitted hard foam as crush zones inside his Nacra 5.8 and found that they were very effective but then again he was travelling at speeds that a Swift can only dream of.
Cheers Alan
Last edited by alan williams on Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Michael4
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Re: Swift 419

Post by Michael4 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:44 pm

Thanks all for the info on rudders dagger boards et al.

Another question...

Painting aluminium and alloys etc.

The Swift has alloy mast and boom once anodised, then sanded and painted. The anodising has broken down or is patchy. Spots of oxidisation around old rivet holes etc. It also has an alloy mainsheet track, mast step and other bits and pieces that are well eaten by oxidisation (is this the right term?). I don't want to go to the expense of replacing things so what is the right course of action to 'tidy them up'?

What stops deep oxidisation particularly on cast items? What will stick to anodised alloy and bare alloy?

Do I need to use a metal etching primer? If so which? I hear of one pack, two pack, some with 'use by' dates, with acid component and without. I'm unfamiliar with all this.

Comments appreciated!
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