Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, please?

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Aquarius
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Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by Aquarius » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:36 am

trebor wrote:Looks incredible.
Never having seen a boat like this in the flesh, do all the nails you can see go through hull into the strips/laths of wood you can see in your earlier post ?
All of them apart from the garboard nails, which go into the hog. Someone calculated that there are 7,000 nails and 100,000 hammer blows in each of these boats. Every nail goes right into the middle of the rib. Not one "misses". I ask myself "How did the builders manage that?"
Last edited by Aquarius on Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

chris
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Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: somerset

Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by chris » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:52 am

And don't forget the ones you can't see. On mine the strips of the inner skin have a single small nail into, but not through the ribs, to hold those planks in position before the outer skin is added. So: number of ribs times number of inner planks = number of small pins!

GBW505
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:51 pm

Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by GBW505 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:26 pm

Have been following this topic with great interest, as I bought Nimbus K316 (reg.1934) at the EISCA auction, as she had belonged to my father. I'm not competent to do the work on her myself, so she's awaiting professional (sympathetic) restoration, nevertheless the construction of these boats is fascinating to me.

We have found Nimbus' hood ends to be all fastened with bronze (stayfast) nails - not a screw in sight. Maybe the screws were a post-War introduction??

GBW505

Aquarius
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Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by Aquarius » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:41 pm

GBW505 wrote:Have been following this topic with great interest, as I bought Nimbus K316 (reg.1934) at the EISCA auction, as she had belonged to my father. I'm not competent to do the work on her myself, so she's awaiting professional (sympathetic) restoration, nevertheless the construction of these boats is fascinating to me.

We have found Nimbus' hood ends to be all fastened with bronze (stayfast) nails - not a screw in sight. Maybe the screws were a post-War introduction??

GBW505
The construction is often said (by the British!)* to be the "last word" in traditional boatbuilding, and indeed it really is quite traditional, planks spiled double thickness and ripped to make pairs, ribs notched into the hog and luted in white lead paste, and so on.

Now about hood end fastenings. In the not very wonderful photo of Nimbus in the auction catalogue, the nail heads look more like copper (ie red) than bronze which tends to go and stay green, and in the NSBR pictures I can't make them out.

In 19th century British boat building practice, hood ends were usually fastened with copper boat nails which were twisted with a pair of pliers whilst held in a vice, in order to increase their grip, but I think that manufactured bronze gripfast nails are a post-War thing.

There are places in Galatea in and around the buoyancy tanks where twisted copper boat nails have been used in place of screws, but I haven't yet found a bronze nail.

This picture, taken after the first coat of varnish and before the nail heads started to disappear under varnish shows the stem hood end screws and the horizontal line of larger copper boat nails which secure the forward buoyancy tank framing, You can also see the diagonal pattern of nails securing the inner skin through both skins, but not of course the "buried" ones (see Chris's post, above,) but you know where they are because that is where the nails through both skins are missing...

Image

I'd therefore expect Nimbus's hood ends to be fastened with twisted copper boat nails, as Uffa and his staff seem to have been "quite orthodox" but highly skilled.

I think you are probably right, and that the screws are post-War, but I hope a few other owners of Fox Fourteens will look at their boats and chip in...

* Americans would make the same claim for Rushton canoes and carvel Adirondack guideboats...
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

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trebor
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Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by trebor » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:53 pm

You can understand why Dinghy sailing was a fairly wealthy persons sport when you see amount of work in pre-War boats.
What would on of these boats cost to have built today?
Robert
Minisprint 4230
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http://www.aquabatdinghy.co.uk

Aquarius
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Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by Aquarius » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:31 pm

trebor wrote:You can understand why Dinghy sailing was a fairly wealthy persons sport when you see amount of work in pre-War boats.
What would on of these boats cost to have built today?
Mast - £850 from Collars... see price list for that and the boom... and keep in mind that Uffa thought that masts were disposable items...

After that, the numbers go one way - up! Uffa seems to have wanted £240 for a Fourteen, and the National Twelve could be built for £45 at a time (1936) when a simple clinker tender would set you back a tenner. This is probably a reasonable guide to the man hours involved although Uffa's very skilled work force must have worked fast...

I have thought of two ways of calculating the price in today's money.

Using the Bank of England's Inflation Calculator:

http://bankofengland.education/inflationcalculator/

we get to £14,824.29. Quite an expensive dinghy, but perhaps about what one would pay for a new carbon fibre Fourteen and all gear today?

Another way to look at it is to look at wooden boat prices - let's say a simple clinker tender will now set you back £3,000.00 - a new clinker National Twelve to the Uffa King design would be £13,500 (that looks about right) and in that case a new boned Fourteen would be ...£ 72,000...(which seems much too much!)
Last edited by Aquarius on Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

GBW505
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:51 pm

Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by GBW505 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:01 pm

I'd therefore expect Nimbus's hood ends to be fastened with twisted copper boat nails, as Uffa and his staff seem to have been "quite orthodox" but highly skilled.

I think you are probably right, and that the screws are post-War, but I hope a few other owners of Fox Fourteens will look at their boats and chip in...

* Americans would make the same claim for Rushton canoes and carvel Adirondack guideboats...


Thanks very much for that, all really interesting. Have just discovered that Alarm (built 1935) has screwed bow hood-ends and nailed transom ones, so that's my post-War theory out of the window.

Being new to this forum business, haven't worked out yet how to post images on it so, just for the record, will email you a better image of Nimbus' front end.

GBW

chris
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Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by chris » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:42 am

Anyone else taking their vintage 14 to Banbury this coming weekend for the CVRDA event?
I am going
Chris

Keith66
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Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by Keith66 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:41 pm

Out of interest Uffa fox did his apprenticeship with the Saunders company, not sure if this was SE Saunders or after it had become Saunders Roe. They were famed for their patented Consuta system of planking, (sewn plywood) this was the pioneer of very lightweight multiskinned construction first used to build the umpires launch Consuta in 1898 & much used in seaplane construction.
Saunders were pioneers in high speed powerboats & Launches plus aircraft. Hulls were multi skinned with thin inner layers built on a mould, a thicker layer was put on running fore & aft & this had regular slots cut into it to hold the copper wire used to sew the boats together. Oiled calico or silk was used between the skins. Saunders boats were very light & very strong, also very difficult to fix if damaged perhaps why so few have survived.
It would hardly be surprising if Uffa was influenced by these boats the construction of a Saunders launch & the hull lines are uncannily similar to the early Uffa fox Int 14's.

Aquarius
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Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by Aquarius » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:02 pm

Sorry, good people - another question...

Galatea arrived with almost all her "bits", including two spinnakers, but no spinnaker pole.

I am happy to make one if i know what it should look like, what the dimensions should be and what fittings a 1946 spinnaker pole had (was it double ended, etc?)

Has anyone got one that they could measure and photograph?
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

Aquarius
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:08 am
Location: Woodbridge Suffolk

Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by Aquarius » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:53 pm

Update:

Outside, foils, spars, done. Sails back from Suffolk Sails with the damage done by Mrs Mouse repaired.

Happily (???) scraping at the inside...

Deadline Aldeburgh 15th...?
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

GBW505
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:51 pm

Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by GBW505 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:06 pm

Good to see you've made such good progress - do hope you make it to Aldeburgh.

Not quite there yet with Nimbus but the new rig (she came without one) should be operational fairly soon and we aim to get her on the water within the near future.

Gillian

Aquarius
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Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:08 am
Location: Woodbridge Suffolk

Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by Aquarius » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:34 pm

GBW505 wrote:Good to see you've made such good progress - do hope you make it to Aldeburgh.

Not quite there yet with Nimbus but the new rig (she came without one) should be operational fairly soon and we aim to get her on the water within the near future.

Gillian
Hello Gillian,

I'm not confident about Aldeburgh... I've got to fit the new spreaders to the mast, find a way of fitting buoyancy bags, and keep scraping... she might turn up "not quite finished"...

Up for a private match with Nimbus, later in the summer, if you like?
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

thomasyeung
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:07 am
Location: Suffolk

Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by thomasyeung » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:17 pm

Good evening,

I have just acquired K871 ‘Aqua Marina’, and I took it out for our first test sail this afternoon.... it was sailing well, until I decided to practice capsizing and righting, and the buoyancy tanks filled with water..... It’s difficult to sail fast when the boat is three-quarters under water!

Did you finish fixing your boat? Have you taken her out on the water?

I’d be happy to listen to any comments you may have on repairing these old boats....


Thomas
——————————-
Thomas Yeung
‘Aqua Marina’ K871
International 14

Aquarius
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Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:08 am
Location: Woodbridge Suffolk

Re: Advice on owning an Uffa Fox International Fourteen, ple

Post by Aquarius » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:52 pm

Hello Thomas,

Not yet! Still a work in progress! But I certainly won’t trust the buoyancy tanks!

Your comments remind me that my son Alex’s International Canoe, K229 “Ogaf the Unbearable”, reputed to be the last of the cold moulded Nethercots, tends to set off flying high and return to the slipway an hour or two later “imitating the action of a submarine”, as water gets into the tanks!
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

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