11+ afloat

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Michael4
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Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:25 pm
Location: West Sussex

11+ afloat

Post by Michael4 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:12 pm

Jim kindly gave me this boat earlier this year. The class has always appealed to me and I needed a small project. Today it hit the water for the first time in (I don't know how many, Jim might) years. It is a lovely little thing and seems to go well in a well mannered way. Any others around?

Various things need sorting but it has come together using a box of bits that Jim supplied and anything I could find in my garage. Hence the hull is the same colour as my last two projects. Somewhere is a picture of the jib before it spent a couple of days in a bucket of oxalic acid. I've deliberately set the boom high to make life easier for tall old people though there is not a whole lot of room in there for two over 6' something.

ImageIMG_3486 by dralowid, on Flickr

From today's experience at least I reckon this one is a keeper,
Thanks Jim!

ImageIMG_3485 by dralowid, on Flickr
Tideway 206
11+
Something bigger and plastic

Pat
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: West Wiltshire (Wessex)

Re: 11+ afloat

Post by Pat » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:41 am

Lovely pictures!
Can I steal them for the dinghy database?
(Half Cut and What a Lark Removals Ltd)

Michael4
Posts: 483
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:25 pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: 11+ afloat

Post by Michael4 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:26 am

Pat, feel free. I hope to have some of it in use in due course.

For those who doubt the efficacy of oxalic acid here's a pic of the jib before treatment (from Jim).

ImageScreen Shot 2018-07-26 at 10.20.30 by dralowid, on Flickr

Obviously I removed the luff wire beforehand. It spent a couple of days in a solution while I spent a couple of days digging tiny bits of rusty wire out of my fingers. Then followed threading a 'spare' bit of dyneema type stuff through it and the use of some tape. We shall see how long it will last.
Tideway 206
11+
Something bigger and plastic

JimC
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Re: 11+ afloat

Post by JimC » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:10 pm

Well done.

No, I have no idea when she was last sailed. I'd be fairly surprised if it were much after 1990, maybe well before. I can't see it could possibly have been after 1995.

Rupert
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Re: 11+ afloat

Post by Rupert » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:36 am

Lovely! By far the prettiest of the small plywood boats of the era. And since, really.
Rupert

chris
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Re: 11+ afloat

Post by chris » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:29 am

Interested to know if these were cotton or terylene and whether the acid has affected the material at all. I used a rust stain devil on a small scrap of cotton sailcloth and it affected it badly. One sailmake suggested Vanish as a gentler method.

Michael4
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Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:25 pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: 11+ afloat

Post by Michael4 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:53 am

Terylene.

I only did the jib. Dilution very roughly 50g per litre (plus some). ie strongish according to advice. Started warm and then left for around two and a half days. Then washed in Tesco cheap floor cleaner and hosed a lot to get rid of acid.

If it was calendered (if that is the right word) it must have lost some, ie it is softer but this could be the floor cleaner. Seems still useable but it is early days yet. Odd green deposit on stainless eyelet.

The luff wire dematerialised in quite a nasty way as I unpicked it and got it out. There may be some bits of left over luff wire in there. If there are they will soon start rusting again...

Reckon it is worth the effort if you have nothing to lose!

Michael
Tideway 206
11+
Something bigger and plastic

Michael4
Posts: 483
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:25 pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: 11+ afloat

Post by Michael4 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:56 am

...and...

If anyone has an 11+ to check:

Where do you put the halyard cleats on a quaintly rotating deck stepped mast? Out of the way of sheets. Both are in-mast unlike an early Firefly.

What did the the rowlock fittings look like? They must have been raised to allow the oar to clear the curved side tank. Nasty to look at and to sit on unless there was a clever solution.
Tideway 206
11+
Something bigger and plastic

chris
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Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: somerset

Re: 11+ afloat

Post by chris » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:18 am

Thanks for that. Well done. I have found that the early terylene does iron quite well and gets a lot, but probably not all, creases out . I used a melamine panel on trestles as the ironing board and sponged a bit of moisture on. I haven’t yet melted anything but judge the temperature of the iron of course. It does put a bit of firmness back.

For your rotating mast the halyards probably need to come back to cleats on the mast itself. That’s been the case with a few rotating masts I have had. Then it can all rotate without problems.

Michael4
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Re: 11+ afloat

Post by Michael4 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:50 am

Never thought to iron the sails, not big on ironing shirts either! Might try in the winter.

As to halyard cleats, I have put them on the sides of the rotating mast however they invariable catch the jib sheet when beating.
Tideway 206
11+
Something bigger and plastic

chris
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Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: somerset

Re: 11+ afloat

Post by chris » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:27 pm

Looking at your photo I wonder if the jib was designed to have the fairleads further forward. The sheeting angle is much lower than the mitre that goes down to the clew would suggest With the fairleads where they are I would expect a higher position for the clew even nearly level with the boom. Either that or the fairleads should be moved forward.
The cleats on my rotating masts are on the aft edge and jib only occasionally hook up., keeping a little tension through tack stops them thrashing about.

JimC
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Re: 11+ afloat

Post by JimC » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:30 pm

She's old enough that the jib would originally have been set on a strop, not at deck level,which possibly explains the sheet locations. A barber hauler to the rails on the inside of the tanks would probably give a better sheeting angle (lateral and vertical) and reduce the snagging a bit. I concur that cleats would have been on the back of the mast.

Michael4
Posts: 483
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:25 pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: 11+ afloat

Post by Michael4 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:27 pm

Yes, I agree that the cleats should be on the back of the mast but there is very little room what with gooseneck track and halyard sheaves. I suppose I might be tempted to shorten the mast track to make space for cleats of some sort.

Regarding the jib fairleads. The position matches the original plans. I'll double check the jib measurements against the info I have or I have a spare Tideway jib with a higher clew.

HOWEVER... as I type this I now remember that there was a little wire strop in Jim's box of bits. That might do the trick and also give me a chance to see where I am going.

ALSO...

Taking time now to look back at scans of the builder's brochure I can clearly see a strop and a jib well clear of the deck.

Not relevant but the original drawings show the forestay going round a block and running back so that crew could adjust tension on the hoof.

Thanks for the thoughts, very helpful, more fiddling required.
Tideway 206
11+
Something bigger and plastic

chris
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Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: somerset

Re: 11+ afloat

Post by chris » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:22 am

I wonder if the forestay turned a block for tensioning. It seems unlikely, but not impossible perhaps. If you tension up the forestay the jib goes slack. All the tension should be through the jib luff not the forestay, and if you have a rotating mast then the arrangements found on the Merlin of the period might have been the plan. On their rotating masts there is a wire loop that comes from the hounds for about six inches and that has triangular shaped block running on it. The forestay comes off a pin on the triangular case and the jib halyard goes from the head of the jib, round the block and is taken back down the luff ( and handed to it), then turns a block at the bow fitting to be lead back to a cleat. The advantages are that the mast is freer to rotate, the jib halyard ends up with a 2:1 purchase and because the luff is handed back to the halyard it helps support the luff whereas hanging it to a loose forestay would have no benefit and the last advantage is that this system reduces some of the downward pressure from the hounds on a wooden mast.
Not the only way of doing things but may explain a block seen at the bow.

Michael4
Posts: 483
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:25 pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: 11+ afloat

Post by Michael4 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:32 am

Your Merlin layout sounds, from memory, similar to a Firefly with a Reynolds mast. No such sophistication on the lowly 11+. See attached, it appears to have has a chain strop and simple forestay tensioning.

I need to find that strop, if still has a block attached it is probably the original.

Image11plus scan415 by dralowid, on Flickr

Again referring back to the plans (which I should have done more often), the halyard cleats are on the sides of the mast which ain't really satisfactory.
Tideway 206
11+
Something bigger and plastic

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