The Classic Moths (USA) have just recently started scheduling an annual event up at Cooper River SC in New Jersey (it used to be a strong Moth club in the 1950's to 1960's). River sailing clubs are a rare thing in the U.S. This was the first year I've attended and it was as fluky as I expected, but the stop-start sailing as gusts filtered from everywhere was quite enjoyable even if some epithets got muttered along the way. Knowing that the UK has a very active river dinghy racing scene, I decided to fritter away some time with Google Earth. For starters, Cooper River varies from 140 meters to 200 meters wide across the race course. I then looked at Bristol Avon SC, 30 - 40 meters wide. Wow! that is really shoehorning it. Then I looked at Chippenham Canoe and Sailing club, 20 meters wide pretty much up and down the river. How do you call for water when fitting three boats abreast is pushing it? OK fill me in on some of the UK river sailing clubs. Does Chippenham take the UK prize for the most narrow body of water that is raced on? Other anecdotes of river sailing? If at some distant future, I wanted to do a month tour of UK river clubs, what would be the ones to visit?
Rod M
Annapolis MD
River Sailing from USA/UK perspective
Rod M
Annapolis MD USA
http://www.earwigoagin.blogspot.com
http://cbifda.blogspot.com/
Classic Moth: 105
PK Dinghy
Annapolis MD USA
http://www.earwigoagin.blogspot.com
http://cbifda.blogspot.com/
Classic Moth: 105
PK Dinghy
Here are a few - http://www.upriver.org/ - http://www.thamessailingclub.co.uk/ - http://www.utsc.org.uk/ - http://www.medleysailingclub.co.uk/ - http://www.helfordriversc.co.uk/ - http://www.hambleriversc.org.uk/ - http://www.cam.net.uk/home/sail/ - http://www.bristol-avon-sailing.org.uk/
There's also sailing on the Norfolk Broads - http://www.norfolkbroads.com/water
Some pretty narrow venues but mostly very picturesque and with good pubs nearby!
Hope this whets your appetite for a visit to the Old Country!
Ian
There's also sailing on the Norfolk Broads - http://www.norfolkbroads.com/water
Some pretty narrow venues but mostly very picturesque and with good pubs nearby!
Hope this whets your appetite for a visit to the Old Country!
Ian
I would imagine this will be a hot topic....
but there are river clubs and river clubs....they do really vary quit a bit. Both in their size and also in the quality of the wind. I often think it is the wind that makes the biggest difference to the racing experience. There are quite a few rivers where in some wind-directions you can often have winds that bounce off a barrier on river side and give the appearance of coming from both directions at once. Seems daft, but I remember sailing on Bristol Harbour once and cruising down the harbour on a fast broad run to see another boat coming towards us full speed, running on the same tack. I waited for the hole/change in direction, but no - we just sailed straight past each other.
Sailing in these conditions sometimes seems to drop everything to a matter of luck....but as Gary Player once said "Strange thing is....the more I practice the luckier I get". There is no doubt that there are some real 'river-experts' out there, who just seem to find the wind in the right direction when everyone else is pointing the wrong way wondering where it was going to fill from.
As far as sizes go - not sure about Chippenham being the smallest - it may well be, but one of the saving graces with these rivers is the fact that they have soft banks and sometimes if you run out of room or are obliged to move, you just have to give in and plow into the rushes/bank.
The only time things can get a little hairey is around the starts. Most river clubs break up the fleet into as many wings as necessary to cut down the numbers of boats on the start-line at once.
this can be quite an impressive feet of organisation. At Bourne End Week (Upper Thames SC) they put about 60 or so boats on the water racing at once, including Thames raters all at 5min intervals.
The small size does help in one way - it is easier to communicate and there does seem to be much more talking going on. Some clubs call the numbers of the boats over the line at the start for instance.
You do learn to be happy with manouvering very close to other boats. I find that sometimes, when sailing on the sea, other helms think I sail very close to them around start-manouvers, but in river terms, I keep miles away. I have also known quite confident helms/crews used to sailing on the sea be totally freaked by their first experience of close river sailing.
Frustration is often the name of the game though. I once sailed at UTSC and fell too far below the start-line into a well known hole in the wind. I had the igmony of being unable to sail the 20m upwind against the current (in front of clubhouse)to start the race and watched the leaders get a whole lap finished before I was able to get across the start line. Last Tuesday eve at Saltash (River Tamar) the whole race came down to your ability to get around the bottom mark against the tide and up to the finish line. The buouy was on the edge of the main-stream, but you needed to get out a bit to get room to tack past. I was in a good position in fleet, but got hedged in by a bank of boats trying to make against the tide and lost a good 5 mins passing the bouy. Kathleen Refson (used to bring 12 to CVRDA events)got straight past with a cracking roll tack. But two-thirds of the fleet never made it by at all and ended up being taken down below the bridge totally out of the wind.
I still love that kind of sailing, but I can understand why others may find it more than a bit frustrating.
cheers
eib
but there are river clubs and river clubs....they do really vary quit a bit. Both in their size and also in the quality of the wind. I often think it is the wind that makes the biggest difference to the racing experience. There are quite a few rivers where in some wind-directions you can often have winds that bounce off a barrier on river side and give the appearance of coming from both directions at once. Seems daft, but I remember sailing on Bristol Harbour once and cruising down the harbour on a fast broad run to see another boat coming towards us full speed, running on the same tack. I waited for the hole/change in direction, but no - we just sailed straight past each other.
Sailing in these conditions sometimes seems to drop everything to a matter of luck....but as Gary Player once said "Strange thing is....the more I practice the luckier I get". There is no doubt that there are some real 'river-experts' out there, who just seem to find the wind in the right direction when everyone else is pointing the wrong way wondering where it was going to fill from.
As far as sizes go - not sure about Chippenham being the smallest - it may well be, but one of the saving graces with these rivers is the fact that they have soft banks and sometimes if you run out of room or are obliged to move, you just have to give in and plow into the rushes/bank.
The only time things can get a little hairey is around the starts. Most river clubs break up the fleet into as many wings as necessary to cut down the numbers of boats on the start-line at once.
this can be quite an impressive feet of organisation. At Bourne End Week (Upper Thames SC) they put about 60 or so boats on the water racing at once, including Thames raters all at 5min intervals.
The small size does help in one way - it is easier to communicate and there does seem to be much more talking going on. Some clubs call the numbers of the boats over the line at the start for instance.
You do learn to be happy with manouvering very close to other boats. I find that sometimes, when sailing on the sea, other helms think I sail very close to them around start-manouvers, but in river terms, I keep miles away. I have also known quite confident helms/crews used to sailing on the sea be totally freaked by their first experience of close river sailing.
Frustration is often the name of the game though. I once sailed at UTSC and fell too far below the start-line into a well known hole in the wind. I had the igmony of being unable to sail the 20m upwind against the current (in front of clubhouse)to start the race and watched the leaders get a whole lap finished before I was able to get across the start line. Last Tuesday eve at Saltash (River Tamar) the whole race came down to your ability to get around the bottom mark against the tide and up to the finish line. The buouy was on the edge of the main-stream, but you needed to get out a bit to get room to tack past. I was in a good position in fleet, but got hedged in by a bank of boats trying to make against the tide and lost a good 5 mins passing the bouy. Kathleen Refson (used to bring 12 to CVRDA events)got straight past with a cracking roll tack. But two-thirds of the fleet never made it by at all and ended up being taken down below the bridge totally out of the wind.
I still love that kind of sailing, but I can understand why others may find it more than a bit frustrating.
cheers
eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
I've several pictures of Bristol Avon (Saltford) with a crowd of boats - Shearwater visiting for the Gilmer Trophy - and it looks absolute chaos, yet was incident free (apart from one member stuffing four of his own team into the bank on the start!). Starts were flights of 10 boats and these were a mixture of Enterprises, GP14s Merlins etc
The Thames is more difficult to sail as there are more trees or blocks of flats to block the wind. Creeping upstream along the windward bank is a favourite to minimise the effect of the current.
If you want more on river sailing post something on the merlin rocket forum - they are experts at racing 14 foot by 7ft 6" boats with spinnakers on rivers!
The Thames is more difficult to sail as there are more trees or blocks of flats to block the wind. Creeping upstream along the windward bank is a favourite to minimise the effect of the current.
If you want more on river sailing post something on the merlin rocket forum - they are experts at racing 14 foot by 7ft 6" boats with spinnakers on rivers!
(Half Cut and What a Lark Removals Ltd)
I grew up sailing on the Thames at Tamesis Club in Hampton Wick, then then spent several years sailing at Bristol Avon, too, so I pretty much know how to sail on rivers. But after nearly a decade of lake sailing I've found my willingness to go quite so near other boats and to creep up nearer and nearer to the bank has retreated a little, as has my joy at being headed for the 200th time in 10 minutes - while I can usually get the tacks in on time, I find myself missing sailing in one direction for 100 yards or more. Getting soft, I am. Maybe I'll join Chippenham once I'm finished as Commode of Whitefriars, so I can go down every now and again to sharpen my skills! Chippenham also has the honour, I think, of being the shallowest bit of river around!
Rupert
Ha..... you've all forgotten the granddaddy of them all - Hamble River! Although the water is salty (actually, it would be nice to taste the salt - think lumpy brown stew with seaweed)much of the racing took place in the river - yes, even 14s with the new kites!
In the past this was not only home to the hottest of the Merlin Fleets but National12s, Fireflys...even the FD's used to get fleet sailing there. Sunday afternoon racing - beating down the river while the hordes of gin palaces were coming back in posed some extra special boat handling techniques.
D
In the past this was not only home to the hottest of the Merlin Fleets but National12s, Fireflys...even the FD's used to get fleet sailing there. Sunday afternoon racing - beating down the river while the hordes of gin palaces were coming back in posed some extra special boat handling techniques.
D
David H
.I remember watching a kayaker play on a standing wave that would form off Felixstowe Ferry SC when the North Sea decided to reenter the River Deben. Sounds like a much milder version of what happens at
Shirehampton. Speaking of Felixstowe Ferry SC, in my younger years I got a chance to crew with David White on his 505 in a club race at Felixstowe. A very memorable race! The start sent us upriver against the current. Bank hugging and eking out the puffs until we got to the mark and then shot out to the North Sea. Then around 2 or 3 marks in a Force 3-4, launching off the waves, solid planing under spinnaker, spray everywhere. If I remember we finished off the club just at the entrance to the River Deben. Technically not a river race but it was a race unlike anything I have had the pleasure to sail in.
Rod M
Annapolis MD
Shirehampton. Speaking of Felixstowe Ferry SC, in my younger years I got a chance to crew with David White on his 505 in a club race at Felixstowe. A very memorable race! The start sent us upriver against the current. Bank hugging and eking out the puffs until we got to the mark and then shot out to the North Sea. Then around 2 or 3 marks in a Force 3-4, launching off the waves, solid planing under spinnaker, spray everywhere. If I remember we finished off the club just at the entrance to the River Deben. Technically not a river race but it was a race unlike anything I have had the pleasure to sail in.
Rod M
Annapolis MD
Rod M
Annapolis MD USA
http://www.earwigoagin.blogspot.com
http://cbifda.blogspot.com/
Classic Moth: 105
PK Dinghy
Annapolis MD USA
http://www.earwigoagin.blogspot.com
http://cbifda.blogspot.com/
Classic Moth: 105
PK Dinghy
I wonder how much of the success of dinghy sailing in the UK is linked to the waters you sail on?
If you sail on the local "puddle", sailing looks less scary; more accessible; more convenient; probably more sociable. You will normally sail a smaller and cheaper boat which is easier to own. Everyone probably gets a chance to do well some day. Boatspeed (which can cost money) is probably less important. Sailing becomes very visible and becomes the sort of thing that your neighbour, and therefore you, can do locally in the afternoon- rather than some mysterious activity that other people drive away to do.
I now sail on the second-biggest (I think) dinghy/board club in Sydney and we are on a puddle, too. Maybe there's no strong correlation between good clubs and good water?
Any thoughts?
A thread I launched on Y&Y about the smallest sailing water indicates that Croydon has two clubs on six acres. Blackburn Serpentine may have some sailing activity on 3.5 acres, I think. The London Serpentine looks bigger but I can't find any details.
Chippenham looks tiny; other interesting river clubs are Cam (which sails trailable yachts on a river about 20m wide) and Driffield, where the lug scows sail on a tiny old canal. Any other interesting clubs?
If you sail on the local "puddle", sailing looks less scary; more accessible; more convenient; probably more sociable. You will normally sail a smaller and cheaper boat which is easier to own. Everyone probably gets a chance to do well some day. Boatspeed (which can cost money) is probably less important. Sailing becomes very visible and becomes the sort of thing that your neighbour, and therefore you, can do locally in the afternoon- rather than some mysterious activity that other people drive away to do.
I now sail on the second-biggest (I think) dinghy/board club in Sydney and we are on a puddle, too. Maybe there's no strong correlation between good clubs and good water?
Any thoughts?
A thread I launched on Y&Y about the smallest sailing water indicates that Croydon has two clubs on six acres. Blackburn Serpentine may have some sailing activity on 3.5 acres, I think. The London Serpentine looks bigger but I can't find any details.
Chippenham looks tiny; other interesting river clubs are Cam (which sails trailable yachts on a river about 20m wide) and Driffield, where the lug scows sail on a tiny old canal. Any other interesting clubs?