Calling all Moth and scow addicts.........

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davidh
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Post by davidh » Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:18 pm

Results of yet more research.........

John Shelly did indeed have a shot at doing a boat for the IYRU dinghy trials in 1965-7.

As his Moths at the time were skols the bigger version was called 'Shol'.

By all accounts a good boat - let down my the finish on the hull which was matt black, though elsewhere was varnish.

Expect a pic to be posted on the website soon, along with one of the 'whippet III' scow' - just for those who love their scow shaped dinghies!

D
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Mark
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Post by Mark » Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:43 pm

I must admit I thought that the Skols were a scandanavian design and that John Shelley used his own name in his designs
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Post by davidh » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:47 pm

Not sure on that one Mark - thought it was Shelly who worked with Rondar to build the all glass boats.

By the way - have you looked at the lastest addition to the Moth web site - the pages of ian Ridge photos??

Ian R had come over to my place recently, bringing with him all his pictures of his work as I waanted them for the project I'm doing (the book of the Contender)

There was also a heapa of Moth pics, loads of them in fact, including one of Ian playing with a foil unit (this was in the mid/late 1980s, way before moths went airborne)

Ian had been involved in the construction of some models for tank testing, when it was all done he inverted one of the winged keel units and rigged it on his moth. After being towed behind the rescue boat at Weston - which proved that there was sufficient lift, Ian tried sailing with it and did get airborne. The problem was that without anything on the rudder no sooner where you up than you were in!

I was building a 14 at the time and there were 'lets do more of this' talks in the pub - thankfully thats all they were

Just goes to show - nothing is new in this game!!!

David
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JohnK
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Post by JohnK » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:49 am

Not quite a Moth, but for vintage scow affecionados there's the Brigham Scow (http://uk.geocities.com/dinghydata/Brigham.htm). Brigham Sailing Club's web site is at http://my.sporthull.co.uk/default.asp?W ... geID=76696

John (N1662)

Rod
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Post by Rod » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:03 am

I have to agree with Mark on this one; the Skol was not a Shelly design. A transplanted Kiwi, John Shelly designed 3 Moths. In our USA Classic Moth class we have the Mk1 and a good number of Mk 3's though I'm not sure what the differences are. The Shelly Mk 3 plans are available in the U.S and at least one modified Mk3 has been built recently. I have a copy of the plans. The fellow with the Mk1 wants to pull the lines from it so maybe down the road, we will have a better idea where Shelly was going with his Moth designs. I have a feelimg he was going narrower and for less wetted surface. Shelly designs are distinctive in their transoms, with an exaggerated concave from the chine to the gunwhale. This unique transom shape is seen in the Moths, the Int 14's and the singlehander he did for the IYRU trials. It is also true that if Shelly named his designs, the name started with "Sh" as in Shdi for the 14. There was no design name for the Shelly Mk 3 Moth as I recall.

I'm not familiar with the Whippet 3 scow design so I would be interested in more info.

Chris Eyre is the one to contact about European Moth history as he bridged the non-wing, short rig rule to the wide beam wings, tall rig rule. I have an email that is several years old for him which may be out of date. He was in France managing a vineyard.

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Post by Ed » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:03 am

Wondered what happened to Chris....

My 'new' IC is an old boat of his...although I suspect not much of the boat is original except the bit that keeps the water out.

cheers

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Post by davidh » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:27 am

Rod and co.

Okay - I have managed to get the first few pictures uploaded to the website.

As before, it is http://www.bearfacemedia.co.uk

Then go to Research... and there you will find a heading titled IYRU Single handed trials.

You've got.... the Whippet 3.... a rare shot of Bill Kempner sailing the Fireball, singlehanded, from the sliding seat... and an un-named monstrosity from La Baule.

More to come...... hope they fire the imagination somewhat

D
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Post by Rod » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:33 am

The scoop on the Skol Moth design from Chris Eyre

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The Skol was originally made by a business set up by Tony Hibbert - the design was done by a boat builder called Mantel or something like that who was employed by Hibbert - the first prototype was made from cold moulded wood and had an unstayed mast - it was sailed by Tony Hibbert and was later used as the basis for the plug for glass production - the moulds were later handed to Rondar. The design had some success in the UK winning the UK championships under Dick Owens but it did not have the outstanding displacement performance of the Duflos or the rough weather performance of skiffs like my own and Colin Brown's Poacher, which won Nationals and Europeans.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

David H, great pics from the 60's singlehanded trials. Looks like the skipper of the Whippet was using the seat as an arm rest (done that when I've stumbled and fallen in tacking). There have been some great threads on this forum about the singlehanded trials and more pics from the event would be appreciated.

Rod M.
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Post by Chris 249 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:25 pm

As I write this, I'm looking at the plans for the Shol that Shelley did for the IYRU singlehander trials. Although it didn't do too well, in terms of its needle-nose plan and roachy main it was IMHO the most "modern" looking boat in the trials. There's a lot of rocker aft, though. The Moth heritage seems clear to me.

Chris Eyre was running a b & B in France a couple of years ago; his email is on my dead computer but I got him through Google which may still work.

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Post by davidh » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:20 am

Chris,

Checking back the Shol attracted a lot of attention but was let down by a strange hull finish - a matt black hull that just didn't 'work'!

On such little things hang the much bigger decisions,

What is strange is that at the time (mid 1960s) classes were springing up all over the place. Yet, given the depth of talent at the trials at Weymouth none of the 'new' boats made it as a class in the long term. The ToY, Unit, Jeton, Punch, Viking and trapez have all slipped quietly away into obscurity!

D
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Re: Calling all Moth and scow addicts.........

Post by PaulM » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:01 pm

Digging up old threads...........my cuttings etc about Moths have the Skols being designed by one Peter Weir.

No, it wasn't as fast in light airs as the Duflos, but it was a lot easier to sail; and it was of an earlier generation than the "supernarrow seaskiff" (!) Poacher of 1973, more comparable in width with the Sprite and Chelsea Morning, as it was designed pre-wings.

And it was a complete production GRP boat, rare for a Moth.

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Re: Calling all Moth and scow addicts.........

Post by iowlen » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:31 am

Here's a Moth sales leaflet where the Sh part of John Shelley's name was used together with Mc from Bill McCutcheon.
Bill gave me this 1965 leaflet that he used to hand out at the dinghy shows ;

Image

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Re: Calling all Moth and scow addicts.........

Post by slendotnet » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:49 pm

I know this is a bit of an old thread but I wanted to post in here as I have started a new web site called the http://international-moth-archive.org and I think its very relevant to this thread and what some of the posters here may have to offer the larger International Moth community.

The International Moth Archive is a user supported archive project for the classic lowrider designs of the International Moth dingy before it moved to the current foil designs. We are looking to document the design history for the International Moth through user submitted plans, photos, videos and other historical documentation.

If you have anything to offer please contact me here or directly through the contact page on the website.

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