Which Singlehander?

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JB9
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Which Singlehander?

Post by JB9 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:14 am

If you were around 40kgs, a junior sailor and disliked Toppers and Teras, what would you sail?
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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by davidh » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:04 am

In the end, I'd start with the question of where do you sail? For a lightwieght, that makes such a big difference. If it's a small sheltered lake like Cheltenham or Shearwater then a British Moth is a great boat for these restricted waters.

But for an 'all round' boat for real lightweights (on the assumption that in time 40kgs will become 45...50....55 etc) then there is a super classic, the Europe Moth. A charming, quick eye catching gem, more difficult to buy cheaply in the UK but hunt around and they are there.

Of course, there are always the modern SMOD versions, Tera, Pico, Topaz........ and not forgetting the 'Splash' (an INternational Class no less)

There are many others....Comet and Lightning spring to mind but having run their Nationals, I'd say the Europe is still the better bet

D
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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by JB9 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:22 am

Thanks David, doing a quick google comes up with the Europe, rather than Europe Moth, is that right? There is a Europe at BBSC.
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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by Nessa » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:51 pm

The Europe is a great boat - much more boat like than a topper etc. But as David says, where you sail and who you sail with/against should always be taken into consideration. I would have thought 40kg definitely on the light side for a Europe. Why does the sailor dislike the topper/tera type boats? As an instructor, I can guarantee nothing puts the young sailor off more than always struggling because of being overpowered.

I would add the Streaker to David's list - we have one and it's a charming little boat, with a strong reputation as a handicap bandit.
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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by davidh » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:52 pm

You'll have to bear with me a tad as Moth history is not my strongest suite but as far as I know, the class started out as as a continental lake variant of the International moth. As the mainstream Moth fleet continued to develop, the Europa/Europe Moth morphed into it's own class. It continued to develop and when the IYRU/ISAF were looking for a women's singlehanded class at the Olympics the Europe was well placed to fill the slot. Shirley Robertson represented us twice in the class, eventually winning Gold but that was the 'swan song' for the class as it was replaced by the Laser Radial.

In some ways this is a retrograde step, as the Europe is a well mannered joy to sail. It has the full range of rig options, so if there is a chance that the sailor will 'progress' on in the future, the Europe is a good way to learn all the skills of not only sailing a single hander, but of how to 'sort' a rig.

Back in the early 80s, Rondars started building Europes and though there boats didn't feature on the top international circuit, they were well made, down to weight and not too expensive. The difficulty is that the fleet was never big in the UK so the availability of second hand boats can be a problem. Nessa...are you there? Were you at Worthing/Lancing this summer when they had the Europe Nationals? If so, did you get a chance to look at the boats and can you comment?

D
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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by Nessa » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:57 pm

It was definitely a retrograde step for women's sailing when they brought in the radial over the Europe. A recent Y&Y comparison test showed the Europe to be a far superior boat in every way. I had a Europe for a while (when I was at Shearwater) and even though strictly speaking I was too heavy, I still had some fantastic sailing in it because the rig is so adaptable. You can learn so much about boat tune and sailing in a boat like a Europe. It's a shame they never really caught on over here.
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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by Nessa » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:59 pm

The only thing I would say about builders is that although there are mostly Winner built boats around, they can be a little on the fragile side. The Rondars tend to be more robust. Was there not a Batt Europe around, or was that just the sails?
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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by JB9 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:53 pm

Why dislike the Topper/Tera. A perception that they are not really proper boats nor do they look especially nice. Having sailed a Jollyboat and lately a 505 I can see that a Topper would seem rather..... plastic. It is easy to say that they should be the boats to sail in at a certain age/weight but if there is no enjoyment in doing....

The Europe looks a good option.
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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by davidh » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:06 pm

Nessa,

Even though I was hugely overweight for the boat (okay, just say lardy) I've sailed the boat and can confirm that it's a grand boat to sail. I was 505ing at the time for Rondars and they had a stand at the soton boat show. The BBC wanted to take some on water shots for their TV coverage but as so often happens at the southampton show, the weather changed and it 'howled'. None of the other dinghies at the show went out apart from the Rondar 420 (always a star in a big breeze) whilst I took the Rondar Europe. Okay, it was showing off BUT, blasting up and down for the cameras was a lot of fun and proved that the boat was well able to handle the very difficult conditions.

As you say, 40kgs is light but - you do have the ability to sail with a very flat sail and a rig that is depowered. In fact, I'd say that was a strong point for the Europe is the 'controllability' of the mast/sail combination.

Take your point about the Streaker and yes, it is a fine boat, possibly one of Jack Holts best designs (it was one that he liked the most too).
Not knowing the age group that the boat is for one might wonder if the Streaker lacks a bit of 'cred' with the younger people..... again nessa, thoughts?

D
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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by Ancient Geek » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:49 pm

Have you not noticed how our sport is being dominated by Manufacturers One Designs 9 ers Lasers and powerful commercial lobbies and incentives for endorsements from certain competitors. Fortunately the Finn & Star will survive the decline to match racing and cranky boats.
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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by Nigel » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:00 pm

Did anyone read the article in DSM? Replica sails are the work of the devil etc and should not be allowed through the gates of any dinghy park in the land. SMOD World domination?

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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by davidh » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:28 pm

Ancient Geek.

Are you trying to get me to self destruct??????????????????????

I was at the Trials at Hyeres and saw a very different perspective on what boats were doing well. It is not fair on a public website like this to say any more but the news from Madrid had me choking on my elevenses!

Dinghy sailing in this country, at club level, is now 'in decline'. That is the result of an RYA commissioned study by a team of 'Management Consultants'. Youth and Olympic sailing may be riding high but the weekend on weekend activity we all know so well is, across the piece, down by 3%PA. Now that figure came before the threat of a credit crisis. We've discussed elsewhere how fuel and other costs could limit the scope of sailors to travel. Now if ISAF continue to put parochial self interest before the wider needs of 'sailboat racing' (being inclusive there of cats) this decline could start to really hit at the heartlands of the sport.

Sad times.................

D
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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by Southern377 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:41 pm

Hi All,

This Pisces is on e-bay fairly local to me. Sure some of you will be able to supply info?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0297981228

Tempting as something to use this winter..........

Thanks,

Alan.

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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by Nessa » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:47 pm

With the development of the new Rooster built Streaker the boat is undergoing a huge boost in popularity - 50+ at the nationals, including a good helping of female and junior sailors. It does mean, however, that decent second hand boats are rare. There were two on ebay recently, but that is unusual.

Speaking again with my instructor's hat on (in fact I'm SI, but that's me showing off) I can't help but feel that the introduction of so many smod's into sailing schools and the like is doing more harm than good. While these boats can be easy to maintain they have no finesse and some skills, such as handling a symmetric spinnaker, are no longer being taught.

I guess if I was a parent with a youngster who had no taste for a plastic fantastic I would encourage him/her into a 'real' boat in miniature: the cadet is fantastic boat, still has a very active race circuit and has bred many of the current Olympians. It also encourages teamwork and co-operation, as ell as twp sets of sailing skills: crewing and helming. Get them to find a friend/group they can have fun with and get them on the water. That's what matters most.
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Re: Which Singlehander?

Post by Nessa » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:49 pm

But if it must be a single hander, and there is already one at your club, then yes, a Europe is a good little boat and probably more forgiving weight wise than the streaker.
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