Roland Europe

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Pat
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by Pat » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:41 pm

Ignoring that cut-down sail the hull looks somewhat like my Bobbin or one of its bigger brothers. I can't make out the inside detail enough to be completely convinced though.

Rupert
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by Rupert » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:28 pm

Rupert wrote:Contemplating something non cvrda and almost boringly normal...
And I did...I am the proud owner of Lightning 368 No 74. About 30 years old, but 1 owner since new, and even the original sail she comes with looks good. I had her out at Littleton in a gentle breeze and then out at Whitefriars in somewhat more, and she seems good fun. Hopefully I'll race her soon.
Rupert

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jpa_wfsc
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by jpa_wfsc » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:05 pm

It looked quite fast too! Same handicap as a modern laser? (Well, you were catching them up on the broad reaches...)

Signed:

the Bandit Pirate.
j./

National 12 "Spider" 2523
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Rupert
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by Rupert » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:00 pm

Luckily, unlike the Tonic, it has a published handicap, so at least I have something to point at when people complain!
I was surprised it kept up with Lasers in a breeze, as everything I've read about them suggests that when the wind picks up, they get left behind. No nose diving, either. But in the light stuff they are supposed to go well, so I'm hoping for an Albacore killer in the drifters...
Rupert

Nigel
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by Nigel » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:39 pm

Hi Rupert,

nice boats. We have a few at Shirehampton and they seem to go much better than the published handicap - at least in our waters.

I tried one once. It was good until I came to tack. I looked at the tiny space between the boom & deck and thought "no chance" so I jumped off it, turned it round, got back on and sailed her back to the slip.

A couple of the guys go to the nationals every year and seem to have fun so you should have a go.

Nigel

Rupert
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by Rupert » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:38 am

The Nationals clash with Roadford, but I hope to get to a couple of Autumn meetings to give me an idea of how much work I need to do on my sailing over the winter, and to see where the modern ones have their fittings. The boom seems quite high to me after the Europe...
Rupert

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Nessa
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by Nessa » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:28 pm

sorry to dig this thread out from the past, but I need to know if Rupert's Roland had a traveller bar. As you can see, this one doesn't:

Image


should I attempt to fit one?
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PeterV
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by PeterV » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:25 pm

Nessa,
I'm not an expert on Europes (although I do rememebr seeing Wendy Fitzpatrick's boat which must have been one of the first in the UK) but from Finn expereince I would say that a traveller is essential. Since Elvstrom fitted the first prior to the '52 games, no-one's tried sailing a Finn without one. There isn't any alternative, you need to pull the boom down to the deck and you cannot have the boom on the centreline.
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Nessa
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by Nessa » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:30 pm

thanks Peter. I often think the europe is essentially a small Finn. I have somewhere a curved piece of track from an olde fireball, so might be able to do something with that. Presumably my best bet would be to laminate together some layers of ply?
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Brookesy
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by Brookesy » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:37 pm

Peter is absolutely right you must get the traveller under the boom to put any form of tension on the leech of the sail with the Moth unstayed rig which to windward means having the boom on the deck in a blow.
To try to do the same with the kicker would need one mighty ammount of purchase, which you will need to remember to let off totally each time you tack, or you will get very closely aquainted with the boom and ultimately the bottom of the hull.
I seem to remember some excellent pictures of Europa moths and one of the French champion sailing to windward in moderate breeze with the boom on the deck, not sure but I think it was in 'Sail to Win' I may be wrong, but if my memory serves a full width travellor was in evidence and it was a wooden boat.
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Nessa
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by Nessa » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:49 pm

do either of you guys have any good reading for understanding this rig? I can't get my head round it. I know I have to sail with the boom down on the deck, but I want to understand the mechanics of it all, and these rigs are unknown territory to me.
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Rupert
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by Rupert » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:05 pm

Hi Nessa, yes, mine had a traveller. It took me a long time when I had a Europe before to understand the rig even a little. However,I'm now struggling to get the similar Lightning rig working without the traveller and mast rake changes.

There used to be (still are?) loads of tuning tips on the Europe site. The numbers might not work on an old boat, but the concepts do. Oddest thing to get one's head round is that you put the mast more upright in a breeze, but this means you get more mast bend before it hits the aft deck. In a breeze, the boom may well be way outside the transom corner. I never did get the hang of Europes in light winds - the combination of low boom and traveller on the thwart meant for claustrophobia and bad knees. In a breeze, though, nothing touches it for fun.

Love the pic, by the way.
Rupert

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jpa_wfsc
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by jpa_wfsc » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:53 pm

http://www.classefinn.it/finnatics/eng/hisfinn7.html

wrong boat but the principles will be the same... as Rupert says, mast more upright in a blow, to allow you to bend it more, flattening the sail. Essentially the boom is always going to be 5cm off the deck when sheeted in upwind. But when you release it to tack, it pops up (on the Finn) to about 20" off the deck - loads of room to duck under in the tack - as long as you have the kicker off! Kicker on upwind is a suicide mission.
j./

National 12 "Spider" 2523
Finn K468 'Captain Scarlet'

British Moth, 630, early 60's 'Pisces'

!!!! Not CVRDA !!!!
Comet Trio - something always ready to sail.

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Ed
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by Ed » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:14 pm

I can't get my head round it
fofl......


me neither!!

just don't think I am a una-rig type of sailor :-(

eib
Ed Bremner
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Brookesy
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Re: Roland Europe

Post by Brookesy » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:11 am

Look on the Classic Finn website www.classicfinn.org.uk and you will find a useful amount of info in the Finn Sailing Manual and Tuning Guide.
When the boat is set up correctly the rig does all the work for you, for example in a blow when going to windward you sheet the main in hard with the travellor under the boom so that the boom is on the side deck, you hike as hard as you can in a comfortable position and the rig works for you. As you get a gust the mast bends at the top and as the boom is on the deck the leech of the sail opens exhausting the extra power, then as the gust eases the mast straightens up a bit tightening up the leech again, Simples all you have to do is hike and stay there steering the boat to feather it upwind.
The tricky bit is fetching when you cant get the boom on the deck and you need more weight to keep her up.
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GBR455 Rubber Duck (Taylor, grp)
FD GBR350 Supercalifragalisticexpialidocious

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