Encouraging vintage boats

General chat about boats
Rupert
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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by Rupert » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:42 am

The original premis was to find and winkle out those people who own vintage boats but don't come to the cvrda meetings. I quite agree that a weekend with no racing wouldn't appeal to those of us who already attend. Maybe the racing shouldn't be in the set format that we have it in, or something, if racing were wanted. As the non owner of anything remotely elegible, I'm merely trying to see a way to involve others. Having a set race start at a "week" somewhere doesn't seem the way. Maybe, "Shall we have a race now guys?" "OK, when I've finished my pint" is more the way to go.
Rupert

chris
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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by chris » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:04 am

Gosh, Blink and a new thread is on the second page!
Yes I would like to encourage the vintage-vintage boats more. (That's why I introduced the 'Cotton Sail Challenge' at Shearwater.) Above all else I would like to race merlin 6 against similar boats in roughly similar condition; there are such boats out there.
An event should be centred around some racing but I have alsways enjoyed this like Ed's fun race or treasure hunt etc. too. ( So I like the Roadford formula of day 1, fun, days 2,3, racing)
I sail Iska to win (but rarely suceed!) but I won't push her too hard and so if there is trouble ahead I will play safe rather than risk anything. As long as sart lines are not very short and perhaps if there were say half a dozen very old boats that could have their own start I don't see we need to change anything. But if there are people out with pre/justpost war boats that find a reason not to come some of our events then please do let us know why. Otherwise do come and join in.
But if a special vintage event is wanted....count me in.

davidh
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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by davidh » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:27 am

Chris,

I think the die is cast for this season already but there is no reason why this could not be an objective for the first year of the second great decade. That will give Michael time to get Blue Moon completed and afloat - now how much of a photograph would that make, being sailed by a 'gent' (is AG attending then??) in wing collar and cap.

But how to organise the event?

Well, we've talked for a long time now about using of of the established sailing weeks (but not Pylfleet week - there's not enough Tamilful to go around) and making it a "let's all go".

Now if that were to happen, then on the first weekend, you could invite the real classics along for a 'sail past' - making the day into something of a rally. If there is any interest at all, a gentle 'pursuit' style race would show the boats as their designers intended, otherwise it is far more a case of the event being a 'shop window'.

For the rest of the week, those that want to race can do so, with whatever degree of competiveness that they wish to display. (chris - would Gently be afloat by next summer?)

We could also then promote the 'search for the lost class'............

Get somewhere picturesque and the media side of it is, if not actually easy, straight forward.
I've access into some of the TV based sailing companies (okay - the guy sails an RS but we'll forgive him that) - maybe even get a personality along BUT - it would need to a clear strategy from the Roadford AGM onwards.

Please note though - I am not saying 'do this' but from a marketing and promotional point of view, this would probably be the easiest way forward.

Anyone on here from the Midlands? Isn't there a posh country house somewhere in the 'heart of England' with a lake that sailors sometimes get to use.... Ragley hall springs to mind?

If you can tie it in to some other 'historical' anniversary or milestone - even better.

D
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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by Pat » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:26 pm

Incidentally the OGA does cater for the Swallows and Amazons type dinghy, up to and including the RNSA 14 (and offers races for them). They do a good annual open event - a race round Horsey Island in Walton Backwaters in June each year.
VERY Swallows and Amazons since Walton Backwaters was the Secret Water of the novel.
So Garry should take 111 to this event.

It would be a good one to try to join in with for the vintage boats, whether racing or cruising. Haven't we joined the OGA at Clywedog or somewhere before??

chris
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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by chris » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:03 pm

I'm in favour of most of these ideas. But I still I think that's what our vintage wing should be about at ALL of our events.
Looking ahead David, 2012 is, I think, Jack Holt's centenary, so we should work something out for that. I hope Gently will be sailing by then!

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Ed
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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by Ed » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:20 pm

But the question we have to be able to quite tightly define is still "What is Vintage"?

I am working on some suggestions for that...but the more I play with words and dates, the more holes I find and the strength of the original simplicity of current rules does shine through.

I am really up for a 'Holt event'.

We do seem to have some very good examples of Holt boats.

Iska, Gently for Merlins

Shoestring for a good vintage Hornet

Conquest - Holt's 2nd IC

There was an early GP too

Could be a smashing idea and a great way of getting some publicity.

Who knows what it might bring up. Remember the CVRDA idea originally came up at the Uffa Fox Centenary regatta, when we were trying to find another event to take the Peggies and Jollyboats to following the Fairey 50th and the Uffa Fox centenary.

cheers

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davidh
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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by davidh » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:20 pm

Ed,

Brilliant idea!

have some thoughts on this too.

Problem is - Putney! Would have to be there or there abouts.

Hmmnnn...thinking aloud now..........

we ought to be able to get at least one of most of Jacks boats (lazy E etc)

but the problems would be with........

Jacksnipe
Cavalier
Corinthian

I'm trying hard to think if there are any real 'skeletons' in the Holt design list but apart from the two single handers, I cannot think of any.

This could be a major event in the year, although the danger will always be that from a media perspective, everyone's attentions will be elsewhere. BUT that said - Jack Holt designs 'in the main' (though I fully accept not exclusively) were focused on the domestic market. There are a lot of dinghy sailors out there who by August 2012 will be sick of the big O word and might just like the diversion of something that has a lot of relevance to a far larger proportion of the UK dinghy scene.

The other issue is that though 2012 seems a long way away, in terms of organising an event such as this then we're already somewhat 'behind the curve'. The one big question for 'us' then becomes one of:

Does the CVRDA take the lead in organising an event for the centenary celebrations for Jack Holt? There could be a huge amount of publicity and kudos in being taking the lead, equally a whole shed load of work for a number of people.

You may recall that there was something similar planned for Ian Proctor - the idea was to have an event held at Falmouth that would have included a sail past of all his designs. Sadly it never happened which is a shame, for along with Jack he has to be one of the corner stones of the dinghy revolution that took place in the 1950s and 60s. There is no magic to making an event like this happen, the idea is there, all that has to happen is that someone has to pick up on this an 'make it so',

D
David H

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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by Pat » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:51 pm

The Holt anniversary should be something special and no doubt Ranelagh with Nick Price and Mervyn Allen (Vintage Merlins) would want to be in on the act - another Tideway race?
What other locations are associated strongly with Jack Holt? It would be a nice antithesis to the Olympics, provided it was sometime before them!

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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by Ancient Geek » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:36 pm

Jack Holt was one of the founders of Wraysbury Lake Sailing Club on a gravel pit just West of Londons Heathrow Airport. He kept an Enterprise there and a Solo called rather appropriately "Garbo", WLSC might be cuffed to be asked. Last time I looked down on it from the air it look as though the trees had grown up a lot.http://www.wlsc.org.uk/ee/index.php/site/classes given all the tidal and rowing considerations it might be easier all round!
Simples.

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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by davidh » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:00 pm

you'd have to consider all the main one design classes (from Cadet to Streaker) plus all his development class work. I would imagine that boats such as Shoestring would enjoy a lovely day out!

I had a root around today for some info that I had on the Cavalier and Corinthian - but I do not think either of them survived! I do have some pictures though!

D
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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by roger » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:37 pm

The first Hornets I beleive were sailed at the corinthians at Burnham in the "East" and then many were built at Torpoint. In the West.
To be honest the Holt boats were so widespread i guess many clubs can claim a Holt connection.
Much as I enjoyed the Tideway in a Merlin I dont know if I would be happy with Shoestring in those shifty winds and strong tides.
I suggest we approach a few clubs who have the facilities to hold this sort of event and it should be fairly central to allow boats and classes from all areas to come.
I bet if we contacted the Holt classes early enough we could get a very good turnout. If the GPs took it on board we could have a LOT of boats and lets face it clubs may be looking for a high profile event to counter the 2012 effect.

I say we start making plans now and make it a cvrda organised event but not closed to non cvrda boats ie modern geep are still Holt boats.

I am happy to approach classes and see what interest there is. Something to go for ?

form a sub committee to organise?
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
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davidh
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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by davidh » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:49 pm

Roger,

this is something to discuss over a beer or three at Roadford. It will make a welcome change from trying to work out if teh wings need changing and if so - how.

Can I just air one tiny word of caution. A big fleet of solos, GPs, Enterprises and Streakers, with a token Lazy E, Iska, Gently and a Holt 14 or two is not the answer. Of course all the Holt classes get an invite - with the stress on 'invite'. Most of these classes would be more than happy to have examples of their boats reflecting the 'ages'. And - wait for this Neil - as the Cadet will surely be there, we'll have younger people at a classic event!

Even if you had one boat per decade per class - you would still have a BIG fleet to manage.

Lots to think about so a meeting in the bar (Alan's tent?) at Roadford?

D
David H

roger
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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by roger » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:08 am

My thoughts were big fleet but with a classic and modern sections. I am sure we could get this sort of event sponsored for prizes. Iam sure Holt might put their name to it as would many other companies. Certainly worth looking at the big picture and get a club that is used to running big events to take it on. Make it a similar event to the SGP in that it is a fun event with lots of prizes through the fleet.

Lets face it we have plenty of time to book it and promote it.

Now this thread has gone way off track. :o
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353

Rupert
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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by Rupert » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:47 am

Holt already sponsor (and help run?) events, so it would be worthwhile checking that nothing is already in the pipeline from their end?
Rupert

chris
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Re: Encouraging vintage boats

Post by chris » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:53 am

Yes, pint in hand ready to talk at Roadford. Iska, Gentle..oh and don't forget Spritefull was Holt's first glued ply hull!
Ps agree about Putney as a I failed on several times to beat against the tide in a light wind.

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