Lost class or lost cause?

General chat about boats
davidh
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Re: Lost class or lost cause?

Post by davidh » Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:22 am

Rupert,

I happen to like a fully battened main but as in just about everything, there are swings and roundabouts.

I've not been very good recently with my choice of examples but I will try one here that I hope works.... the Blaze (Yes, I know it's a smod but it is a boat that I happen to know well).

The Blaze, in it's original set up, carried a fully battened main and was had something of a reputation for being a sod to sail. Now here I'm going to give Topper some due - for rather than plug pulling, they allowed a second version to flourish as the Blaze X - which quickly became the 'standard' boat.

The biggest difference in the two boats was in the rig, for the Blaze X went for the semi hard (or semi soft) rig and in doing so made the boat quicker - as well as easier and more rewarding to sail.

And just to show that the debate rumbles on..... I'm offski to Garda next week to sail the new Devoti single hander in breeze - assuming that is that the Garda weather plays ball (an issue - thunderstorms there at present which kills the thermal wind dead). Now I've sailed the D-One already and if there going to be an issue it is with that fully battened main. It's a big sail, so you'll need to crank the kicker on - but with a light hull, any fluffing in the tack and you'll be in stays before you know it.

Maybe I am prejudging things, so I will say no more until I return BUT -my experience in single handers suggests that this is where sailor will have to work the hardest when the breeze is up. Now in the Contender, many helms find that they have to dump the kicker before tacking, just so they can get under the boom! One would hate to have to do that though in a sitting out boat, where the ability to snap in a tack is part of the fun.

Rupert.... from my time on a ToY, I found that with the fairly long, light bow, you needed to get the head of the boat well round - which seemed to work well for it gave you time to fiddle with the seat before setting off again. Did you ever get to try the 'BiG' toy rig...... I heard that it made a lot of difference!

I've kept an old contender mast hung up on the garage wall - just in case funds allow and a Harrier hull comes up locally..... leave off the trapeze wires and you've got a shoe in for a Phantom stick - with a little modification here and there!

D
David H

JimC
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Re: Lost class or lost cause?

Post by JimC » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:42 pm

davidh wrote:The biggest difference in the two boats was in the rig, for the Blaze X went for the semi hard (or semi soft) rig and in doing so made the boat quicker - as well as easier and more rewarding to sail.
Which brings in your point about development, because all those first generation Topper boats had awful rigs... Its no suprise at all that it was possible to improve on it, even with short battens...

Rupert
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Re: Lost class or lost cause?

Post by Rupert » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:17 pm

JimC wrote:
davidh wrote:The biggest difference in the two boats was in the rig, for the Blaze X went for the semi hard (or semi soft) rig and in doing so made the boat quicker - as well as easier and more rewarding to sail.
Which brings in your point about development, because all those first generation Topper boats had awful rigs... Its no suprise at all that it was possible to improve on it, even with short battens...
Now, if ever something was made from photos of 18' skiffs without complete understanding it was the Iso rig, followed by Buzz and Blaze.
Rupert

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jon711
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Re: Lost class or lost cause?

Post by jon711 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:29 pm

Rupert wrote:
JimC wrote:
davidh wrote:The biggest difference in the two boats was in the rig, for the Blaze X went for the semi hard (or semi soft) rig and in doing so made the boat quicker - as well as easier and more rewarding to sail.
Which brings in your point about development, because all those first generation Topper boats had awful rigs... Its no suprise at all that it was possible to improve on it, even with short battens...
Now, if ever something was made from photos of 18' skiffs without complete understanding it was the Iso rig, followed by Buzz and Blaze.
We are getting off track here.... BUT having sailed in the first ISO nationals (54 boats - came 8th) and currently owing a Blaze X, I do feel I should make a comment. At the time nothing felt wrong with the ISO rig, the only major problem was the prodder in the middle of the spinnaker chute (3 torn spinnys in one year!!), and topper quickly re-designed with a free retrofit to all owners.. The Blaze with fully battened sails was an absoloute pig to sail, with the semi battened rig it is now a joy...

Rupert
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Re: Lost class or lost cause?

Post by Rupert » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:07 pm

But the Iso has now also changed rig?
Rupert

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jon711
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Re: Lost class or lost cause?

Post by jon711 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:58 am

There was no need for the ISO to change it's rig - it was POP culture kids saying it looked out dated....

Very, Very off topic..

Rod
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Re: Lost class or lost cause?

Post by Rod » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:02 pm

Boy, Another thread that meanders this way and that way!

With full battens vs semi-soft (or as DavidH puts it, is that semi-hard?) both camps seem to be migrating toward each other, even the Antipodean skiffies are reducing the number of full battens significantly. Weight is an issue but sail cloth has become so rigid compared to 20 - 30 years ago, the number of battens can be reduced.

I used to sail IC's with seven full battens; today that main would probably have 5.

As far as SMOD's performing significantly better with semi-soft, I would bet this improvement might be due more to the sailmaker finetuning the design on the second or third go round.

That being said, the Classic Moths are experimenting with full battens on our pin-head mains. We are limited to four battens so I have three full length and one short. I have noticed that a full batten, when laying against the shroud downwind, does distort the shape further back. This is more of an issue in light air. That is the only negative other than the typical mechanical one of popping the battens during light air maneuvers.
Rod M
Annapolis MD USA

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Classic Moth: 105
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davidh
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Re: Lost class or lost cause?

Post by davidh » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:19 pm

Now about this for being good enough to come down from the naughty step!

So, getting the topic back under control....

Bonito in good condition for sale in Hill Head (twixt the hamble and Lee on the solent) - asking price circa £350

D
David H

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