Early International Moths

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Rupert
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Early International Moths

Post by Rupert » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:15 pm

Thinking about classic singlehanders again - so pre 1965 designs - and the Europa Moth and the like. Were any of the other designs reasonably deep cockpit (the Skol from 1970 was very bad for my knees!) and what are the chances that any have survived since that time, do you think? I like the old low aspect rig, too, compared to the fully battened one, even if it is less efficient...
Rupert

JimC
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Re: Early International Moths

Post by JimC » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:42 pm

I'm not that very well up on early moths, but I don't remember ever seeing any deep cockpit ones. In the Europe area I think they were all shallow, as of course were the British Moth types. Of course it depends what you call shallow! Some New Zealand Moths had freeboard, but that was a different rule set.

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jpa_wfsc
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Re: Early International Moths

Post by jpa_wfsc » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:16 pm

I thought the Skol was quite a deep cockpit - certainly compared with the La53r. There were a few wide-winged wooden int moths and if they did not have a self draining cockpit (like the Skol has if you weigh less than me) then they might be better.

The OK is definitely deeper.

However all have very low booms - so if the knee problem prevents duckin and divin then still tricky. Since the Moth is a dev boat - you could in theory design a mono-hull proa (tack like "Cheers") then you can sit up on one side all day long? Is there anything in Moth rules that prohibits asymentric hull shapes?

:twisted:

Besides rambling ridiculously, I also tried some random searches just now and came up with this

http://madmothist.blogspot.com/2009/08/ ... uling.html

the bottom picture is the sort of moth you are asking about? A Sprite....
j./

National 12 "Spider" 2523
Finn K468 'Captain Scarlet'

British Moth, 630, early 60's 'Pisces'

!!!! Not CVRDA !!!!
Comet Trio - something always ready to sail.

Rupert
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Re: Early International Moths

Post by Rupert » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:19 pm

I'm meaning single bottomed ones, rather than the dished cockpit style, really. And maybe wider waterline than the Skol, to allow a little less kneeling.

Nice find, John, with the Mad Mothist!
Rupert

Rupert
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Re: Early International Moths

Post by Rupert » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:30 pm

It is a real shame that there is no cmba in the UK - in fact, that there is nowhere really to race classic designs built recently of any class. Would anyone build a new Uffa King N12, or a new Isca, or even a new old rules Moth, in the UK?

The latter sounds like a great garage project, but then what do you do with it?
Rupert

Nigel
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Re: Early International Moths

Post by Nigel » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:48 pm

Rupert wrote: Would anyone build a new Uffa King N12, or a new Isca, or even a new old rules Moth, in the UK?

The latter sounds like a great garage project, but then what do you do with it?
Start with an old pintle and call it a restoration

alan williams
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Re: Early International Moths

Post by alan williams » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:11 pm

You could try and find a Shelly they had a deeper cockpit, but I would be very surprised if any have lasted 45 yrs.
Cheers

JimC
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Re: Early International Moths

Post by JimC » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:18 pm

Rupert wrote: or even a new old rules Moth, in the UK?
I spent some time mulling over this when I built my PlusPlus. I gave quite a lot of thought to building a wide weight carrying Moth. However when it came right down to it I couldn't think of anything I could reasonably do with a wide Moth that I couldn't do with a one off boat so I built the one off which could be a better length.
It is a shame there's no larger development singlehander in the UK (exluding the IC as marching to a different drummer, plus it was one design back then), but that's how it is. I had that go at introducing one, but in spite of a fair bit of noise ultimately no-one got their wallet out (as, to be honest) I expected!

fcdbm
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Re: Early International Moths

Post by fcdbm » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:46 pm

I have had the honour of meeting Major Tony Hibbert who worked as Class Secretary to bring the various worldwide Moth fleets together during the 1960's and formulate the International Moth Class Rules. Tony Hibbert is still with us, google him to find out more, but here is a recent news item: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/corn ... 356336.stm

He has an archive of the documents and photographs from that time and I have scanned most of them. We posted a number of these on the IMCA Archive site, but they disappeared in a recent redesign of the site.

I attach the 1965 Year Book Cover, with an advert for the Shelley Mk1, built by Bill McCutcheon in Wootton. (Bill is also still with us.)

The Shelley Mk3 is reckoned to be one of the sweetest hull shapes.

I raced a Lucky Sixpence in the early 70's, this had a proper cockpit and was good to hike on the small wings.

Later I had a Mistral, this is a design that still meets the American Classic Moth Rules. This was a deeper hull and more challenging.

Most of the Year Books had a centre spread of photographs showing the different hull shapes. I have some scans of these but they are quite big, if you are interested we can work out how to upload them.
Attachments
1965_66 IMCA Year Book Cover.jpg
(222.02 KiB) Downloaded 270 times

roger
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Re: Early International Moths

Post by roger » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:36 am

New Road Wootton. I rpobalby delivered his papers :?
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353

Garry R

Re: Early International Moths

Post by Garry R » Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:10 am

With a typo like that it was likely the Gruniard!!

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Ancient Geek
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Re: Early International Moths

Post by Ancient Geek » Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:24 am

Anthrax?
Simples.

roger
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Re: Early International Moths

Post by roger » Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:54 am

oops
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353

LASERTOURIST
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Re: Early International Moths

Post by LASERTOURIST » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:03 am

As frech people are invterate tinkerers (bricoleurs means DIY and is a kind of philosophy bach here , to the point that some people seem to take more pleasure in building a boat than actually sailing it) there has been a lot of intl moths in France back when it was the DIY poor boy's racer .
Professional building also took in with some exotica like the Gouget (aluminium hull) and even a cruising moth with a tiny cabin of which one has survived to the present day...the "Atlantic moth" was built in fiberglass by Lanaverre (or maybe Matonnat) in the late 50's with a vertical, even near inverted stem (like a WW1 battleship) but a very wide and rounshaped foredeck while the rear sections were more or less like the yet to come Europe.

The most successful builder racer of international moths in France was Jacques Fauroux (of 1/4 ton fame ) and his sister Marie Claude ( who also sailed in the singlehanded transat OSTAR in the early seventies )....at some point in the early / mid 70's the Europe took over and Intl moth lost support in France


Some french moths of yesteryear are listed on this website

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/louis.pillo ... index.html

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/louis.pillo ... hotos.html

SaturdayGirl
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Re: Early International Moths

Post by SaturdayGirl » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:54 pm

Go to .. YouTube - Boat Building; Wood strip Classic Moth .. Buy the timber from robbins and get your self a classic NEW Moth . Use the concave / convex moulded strips .. its not thet difficult .

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