This one's going to be a challenge...

[SoggyBadger]

or maybe not given the depth of knowledge on this forum ...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/14ft-Sail-Boat-/1 ... 19c41d7bb5


It's got me stumped

[Graham T]

Has a look of an Osprey in the forefoot and foredeck but not clinker and 4 foot too short so not that but something similar by Ian Procter? What though I have no idea

[davidh]

Given that bow orofile I think you'll not get many takers on this who don't all shout 'Peggie'!!GRP Hull so Forsrite Plastics from up on the Humber somewhere.

A nice bit of kit for someone - though doing it up may take a few bob!

D

[Spiderman]

Hi Paul,

I agree totally with David that it's a Pegasus and probably built by Fosrite Plastics. Rebore specialists of Leicester also built fibreglass Peggies, but I don't believe that any were composite....? The giveaways as to the true identity are the bow profile, the relatively high washboards, the sheeting position for the genoa and the narrow semi circular transom. As they have become increasingly rare it would be a real shame for this one to end up as a garden ornament! Hopefully someone will come to its rescue.

Cheers

Ian M

[davidh]

Not fogetting of course that the Peggie is already a tried and tested CVRDA warrior - with a wonderful track record. In the past there have been more than a few barbed comments about how well handicapped the Pegasus is (looking back, I may even have made some comments like this myself!!) but the fact remains that the boat, when well sailed, can be very quick indeed.

It's the last (dinghy Hurrah) of Uffa Fox, as witnessed by the tucked in transom that was such a clear feature of his boats - when the design was being discussed, the word was that this was to be the "best 14ft dinghy". Certainly in esturay conditions - as fund in Southampton Water, the boat was quick upwind in light to medium conditions. Somehow it didn't hit the same high spots in breeze or downwind in a blow, was this a result of the 'older' hull design.

This thread is all about the peggie so is not in the right place for getting side tracked on the PY issue - but I can say that not long before his untimely death, Jack Knights was looking at getting a Pegasus (a frostrite one too!) and rigging it up to do the big one off handicap events. There's a lot more to this story but for now, it is suffice to say that JK could clearly see the potential!!

D

[Rupert]

We have had many Peggies at cvrda events, and have held thier Nationals too. I hope we will see some coming to Whitefriars for the National Rally. Handicap wise, we have had 2 or 3 very well sailed boats doing very well, and quite a few less well sailed doing middle to back of fleet. So, if you are a great sailor, it is a handicap bandit... Funny how that works, isn't it?

Wonderful boats, clever construction method for the wooden ones, and I hope we will see them regularly at the cvrda events for years to come.

[roger]

They are not the easiest of boats to trapeze from being very deep. Unless you are on the gunwale ready to go out before heeling starts you have just about had it.
David has made comments regarding crews elsewhere.

[davidh]

Roger - a good point made there - even more so when you want to come in off the wire a bit sharpish!

It is interesting (at least to me - I'll put my anorak on!) that as I write this, I can look out of the window at the hull of the Typhoon. Now one reason it is interesting is that comparing most of the major criteria, the Typhoon and pegasus are closely related indeed. But Proctor probably knew more about the dynamics of trapeze crewing than Fox and was prepared to work the design to make a more stable platform for the crew. It's a matter of record that the underwater hull sections on the TYphoon started life as a development of his IXb Merlin. There is no doubt in my mind that the knowledge about being able to keep the power on downwind (by having the crew out on the wire) was a lesson that took time to learn. If one follows the progression of the three closely related boats (4 if you include the Lazy E) one can see how the thinking towards lighter and flatter progressed - from Pegasus to Typhoon, from Typhoon to Mirror 14.

By the time the Mirror14 left the drawing board of Peter Milne, the ideas behind making life easier for the trapeze crew were well understood - with the result that it is a far more enjoyable boat to sail. If we could get all three (Pegasus, Typhoon and M14) all together at a cvrda event, I think that would make a newsworthy story - for it shows progression and development! Better still if someone could bring along a Lazy E as well.

But ultimately, the 'pocket rocket' concept failed.... lots of reasons that could be explored in more detail in an article

D

[Rupert]

The Pocket Rocket concept failed? Laser 2 seemed to do well enough for a couple of decades, and is still going strong elsewhere in the world - then they grew bowsprits and became such things as the Buzz, 3000 and more recently RS500.

[Pat]

If we could get all three (Pegasus, Typhoon and M14) all together at a cvrda event

Well that is entirely possible this year with yourself, Keith and Andy. We had peggie and M14 together at Clywedog, just need the NLC.

[jpa_wfsc]

Hi Paul,
Rebore specialists of Leicester also built fibreglass Peggies, but I don't believe that any were composite....?

Ian M

Blast from the Past, was a Rebore Composite... (#194).

j./

[keithr]

Peggie 251 was a rebore all glass

199 which I am sailing now is a rebore composite

Still got wooden 100 in barn.

I have still got a dodgy rib through falling off trapeze ( It is a long way down Roger) at Roadford but as has been said before if sailed well they are good but so is a Mirror!!!!!

[davidh]

Hi Keith...I'm afraid that cracked ribs are the occupational hazard of trapeze crewing - I got mine during the Int 14 Europeans at Garda! The problem I found with the Peggie and other deep hulled boats that are rigged with a trapeze is that you have a two stage transition from being in the boat to out on the wire. You have to go up and then out! The problem was the same with the Korsar and Pirat...

In the end I found the best solution is to set the trapeze handle higher than you'd normally expect - then go out on the handle, giving yourself a healthy pull up as you push out - then hook on once settled up on the gunwale (it's a bit lke skiffing it - you start off from the upright position rather than sat down. Coming in is the reverse - the higher handle brings you in stood up, allowing the crew to swivel, then face aft as the boom comes across.

I do not think that this will be a problem in the Typhoon, as the hull has a double bottom, however that is harder for the helm - knee pads could be the order of the day! That is why I think the M14/Marauder was such a sweet boat to sail - you had the raised crew deck (as per the state of the art Hornets of the day) but the helm had a nice deep well for comfortable hiking. I guess this was the point that I was trying to make earlier - that the three boats - with very similar dimensions, can be seen as representing the way in which the understanding of performance sailing advanced.

When I started out racing performance boats they were just adding the trapeze to Fireballs. I crewed for quite a good helm in breeze, but when we got to the top mark and bore away - I stayed up out on the gunwale. The helm was screaming at me to come in.... - I couldn't understand it as we then had to hike out a fireball down a breezey reach. The answer was that you only used the trapeze as an aid upwind....and no - I jest not..... ! I changed helms and convinced my new driver that the answer lay in me staying out there offwind and for half a season we were untouchable in breeze until the other boats started following suit!

Like limited swing spreaders were a move ahead from no spreaders at all - to then locking the rig up tight, these are all parts of the dinghy development story..... that needs capturing and documenting before it is too late!

D