First Trapeze

General chat about boats
Chris 249
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:36 pm

Post by Chris 249 »

DavidC wrote:The best thing about history is distance and the discussions in between!

The two man centre board trials took a long while. The first round was in 1952 in Loosdrect Lake and on the Ijsselmeer. There were 16 designs from 7 countries. The FD seemed better on the lake and the Osprey had the edge on open water.

The articles I have on the trials indicates that at Loosdrecht (21-23 June) the FD scored 4,5,2,7 (guest skipper), 3,2,1. Osprey scored 5,6,7,1,8,3,4.

On the Ijsselmeer, the FD scored 7 wins from 7. The Osprey scored 9,2,6,3,6,4. I'd be interested in more info.



Unofficial further trials then took place in Chichester Harbour in September 1952 with the FD, Osprey, Gannet, Int 14, Merlin-Rocket and 12sq M Sharpie.
I have the reports and the FD did not dominate.

Yes, that tallies with the cryptic reports I've seen. Apparently on the slop and light winds, the FD got slaughtered - one reason it grew the bigger genoa which it could carry with the trap.

The IYRU then set further trials for 1953 in La Baule, by which time the FD's had new lighter hulls and more sail area. I quote from the confidential IYRU report at the time:
"The most consistent winner was Coronet, with two Flying Dutchmen next. Osprey also performed well, and among the smaller boats Fleetwing and one of the Canetons with increased sail area were pre-eminent. The performance of the Hornet was also impressive, considering her small sail area. It was striking that, with such wide differences in the size and design of the boats the racing should have been so close throughout the series"

Fleetwing was a souped up 14 with decks, self draining cockpit, genoa and one trapeze.

Interesting - my reports spoke of her as a standard 14.

Totally agree that many other boats were also very strong - the Osprey had superior buoyancy, skipper visibility, etc. The Hornet strikes me as one of the great boats of the day.

The British reports are possibly influenced by the traditional British preference for short boats, no? The 505 is one of the world's greatest designs but good designers like Lexcen also loved the FD.



Maybe the 505's have some claim. As a point, at the end of the trials the FD had broken 50% of their deck beams and had to be reinforced before production.

As to the IYRU modifying the rules, the Soling may have been a good boat, but Jan LInge himself told me it should not have been at the trials as it was the wrong size and a sailing plug not a production boat. When it was selected, he was not allowed to change anything which is why the boat ended up with measurement templates which would only fit one way round!

Over to you DH
Fair point in some ways, although I'm not sure the size was a limit - more a suggestion IIRC. If they hadn't let the Soling in, I wonder whether today we would criticise them for not letting the smaller, cheaper boat, which was faster downwind, to compete! They also did the same thing when they let the Dart 18 in, despite the fact that it was too big for the trial conditions IIRC. It has also been a dud as far as a real worldwide international class.

I'm rather impressed by the success of these trials generally, compared to catastrophes of the choice of the Uffa Fox International Tornado dinghy and the ridiculous trials for the RSX board.

I would love to get a look at those reports - where did they come from?
User avatar
jpa_wfsc
Posts: 1188
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:52 pm
Location: Oxford (Work) Coteswold Water Park (Sailing)

Post by jpa_wfsc »

DavidC wrote:I didn't want to mention the cat's!!!

However, I think the RYA has lost the plot on this one, although I have very strong suspicions behind the decision.

If anyone wants to object, there is a petition to be signed at
"Against the RYA's recent subissions to ISAF"
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Cata ... bmission?e

It can't do any harm for the RYA to know that there are a lot of people that are very happy sailing cats and do not want to be side lined!
D
Hm there argument is essentialy one of promoting viewing figures. Huh! We would end up with only football, snooker, darts and golf in the olympics on that argument! We are a participative sport!! (Much more so than most others).

I signed the petition - I hope that others will. Thanks for pointing it out, Andy!
j./

National 12 "Spider" 2523
Finn K468 'Captain Scarlet'

British Moth, 630, early 60's 'Pisces'

!!!! Not CVRDA !!!!
Comet Trio - something always ready to sail.
DavidC
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:04 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by DavidC »

Hi Chris,

It is always interesting to compare reports. I don't think I have any actual reports from the first trials, but I do have actual papers and letters from Peter Scott about Chichester and an actual IYRU report for 1953.

There is no doubt that the FD is a fabulous boat. However, it appears that the boat first sailed in 1952 was not the same boat that raced in France in 1953.

These papers are from the archive left to me by Austin Farrar who sailed in the trials and was observing. I have told some of the story in his biography which has just been published.

Observing and working with IYRU/ISAF committees is an interesting task at times and after some 25 years I still can't work them out! The Soling was a good boat although the class has had many problems stemming from the early IYRU decisions. It is spread internationally but not necessarily successful in every country that has some of the boats. It only lists 11 National Associations. Please do not think that the Soling was a cheap alternative. It might have appeared so at first, but the money which was spent on "fettling" boats was enormous. The Etchells is also a good boat with international status but hardly known in may parts of the world. Status is a thorny subject always and one which requires clever games to be played sometimes. You mention the Dart, yet that lists 13 National Associations. well over the number set by ISAF for International Status.

Having said all this, I would agree that the early trials did seem to generate very good boats.
Chris 249
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:36 pm

Post by Chris 249 »

How do I get a copy of Austin's biography? It would be fascinating.

I managed to talk to him once over the phone, but by his own admission his memory had largely failed him by them (2004 if I recall correctly).


Yes, the development in the Soling was expensive, and in more ways than one - in Sydney we had to have two separate starts because of the size of the fleet, but when the "super Solings" came out the class fell apart.

I stand corrected on the Dart, but is it raced outside Europe?
DavidC
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:04 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Post by DavidC »

Hi Chris,

I can supply the books direct. If people Private message me then I can go through postage etc.

Cheers
D
Post Reply