The ideal flat bottomed boat

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Pat
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by Pat » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:05 pm

I like that - it looks like what the Laser should have been :D

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RonnyDG
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by RonnyDG » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:53 pm

I asked myself the same question some 18 or 19 years ago (except for the Minisail bit), when I was wanting to make a wooden boat and go sailing. Both, building and sailing were new for me so it took some time to find out what would be good. 
I ended up with two designs from books to choose from (shortening a long story, the internet helping but not as extensive as it is now): 
John Gardner: Classic small craft you can built (ISBN 0-913372-66-8) Chapter three: 14-foot skiff sail and row. 
Reuel B. Parker: The Sharpie book (ISBN0-87742-304-0) page 102: 14-foot Cape Cod oystering Sharpie. 
 
Being new to all that the choice was to built the J.Gardners Design. More because of the extended building description, despite liking the Cape Cod Sharpie more. 
 
Deciding to build and sail Bertha (the J.Gardner 14-foot skiff sail and row) was good, I still enjoy taking her out for a sail whenever I can. In fact the reason why I never picked up building another boat from scratch was because Bertha gave me all I wanted. 
 
Until I joined our club races with her. Built heavy like a tank and under canvassed she is only good for cruising, and even that starting with 2.5 Bft. 
Got me a Minisail, digged some deeper into the subject and now I am building one (shortening another long story). 
By the way Rupert the hull shell is finished and it's a stitch and glue job. 
 
Now you ask the question, instead of building a replica Minisail Sprite I might as well have spend my time with building the 14-foot Sharpie with minimal weight in mind. Talking about a boat where you sit in opposed to on. 
For those who have access to the paperback, the 16 foot Stick-up Skiff from page 106 is even more appealing ( I know 16 foot is a lot to handle a shore). 
 
The answer is hidden in your question, isn't
it what would actually be the best single handed flat bottomed boat? Best as in fun to sail inland, but OK on water like Chichester harbour. Would it be longer? 15 feet would fit in a single garage, and could be made from 2 sheets of ply scarphed. Would it be scow shaped like the Minisail, or sharpie shaped? 
 
Greetings, 
Ronny
Greetings,
Ronny

davidh
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by davidh » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:09 pm

Readers of the 'late' Dinghy Mag may well remember that I did an article on scows a while back (rupert...if you recall you were in there either in the ToY or British Moth) - I also looked at Aussie Tunnel Moths, the YW Scow and US lake boats.

There is an interesting viewpoint that the skiff shape, as championed by the bethwaites, brought about the premature demise of the scow hull. However, what is without a doubt is that the Fireball hull could carry more sail area; I know this as in a conversation with Peter Milne, he actually told me this direct.

Or - you could just sail the boat single handed - from a sliding seat if needs be, for this was how the boat competed in the 1965 IYRU Performance single handed dinghy trials at Weymouth. There is so much that could be done with a Fireball hull (Al Williams and other Horneteers would have other suggestions) - flush deck it aka the minisail and put whatever rig you want to on. With old F'Ball hulls going very cheaply, you could short circuit the design process and get afloat quickly and without any great outlay!

Not a bad line of thought...........

Pat 'et al'.... re your comment about what the design of the laser 'could have been'. The reason I didn't make Baltic Wharf is that I've been over in New England where amongst other things, I met with Bruce Kirby. I got quite an insight into the early days of the boat and (here this is a real fingers crossed moment) I'm hoping to get an invite back to get the rest of the story as it really ought to be told.

I'm aware that not everyone on here is a Laser fan - but the bottom line is that the direction that the IYRU/ISAF have taken the boat is no reflection on the boat itself - or the radical nature of it's design. If you look at the boats that were around at the time - the Minisail, Piccolo, Bonito, Pisces, man of war...plus so many more, it is clear that the Laser was simply 'better'. It is no surprise that this is the boat that became the 'iconic' dinghy of the second phase of the golden era in dinghy sailing!

It is easy to say - with the benefit of hindsight - that the design could have been bettered but - is that really true? Hands up all those who 'could have done better'!!

D
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PeterV
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by PeterV » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:46 pm

Many people have proposed or even produced 'better' Lasers. They've all been slower and less pleasant to sail. I think Bruce Kirby got the Laser very right indeed.
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JimC
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by JimC » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:18 pm

davidh wrote: Hands up all those who 'could have done better'!!
Well, first you have to define what better is, and then you have to ask "then", or "now with hindsight, modern materials and what has been learned since"?

Perversely with hindsight the things I'd most change about the Laser would be to tighten up some aspects of the rules: those ultra low profile carbon tillers should have been outlawed immediately as should any means of increasing the purchase of the control lines. If they hadn't allowed all those stupid knots and then thimbles and things there wouldn't have been the pressure to increase the purchase on the controls so much, and if they hadn't done that they wouldn't be trashing sails and topmasts at the rate they do nowadays.

alan williams
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by alan williams » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:35 pm

Hi Dave
At one National Championship there was an inter fleet furball smashing contest. All the remains had to pass through a bog seat. I believe a team which included me won. No humans were hurt in the exercise. All the furballs had been left in boat parks and had large sums of money owing on unpaid fees, the owners were given a date to pay up or else.
And now insane people rescue the things.
Cheers Al
Last edited by alan williams on Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

PaulM
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by PaulM » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:55 pm

Or do what someone in the USA did and cut a couple of feet off each end and make it into a retro-style Classic Moth Boat..............there have been quite a few old L***rs chopped in the same way and made into Masers. Generally they are known as 'Frankenboats'.

http://earwigoagin.blogspot.co.uk/2011/ ... those.html

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trebor
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by trebor » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:11 pm

the only problem I found with Lasers, apart from staying on board was the Belfast sink cockpit, the upright sides dig in the back of your legs, their may be a technical reason for shape of cockpit if so excuse my ignorance.
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Pat
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by Pat » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:23 am

Another very unusual flat bottom boat - did anyone see Le Salvager on Discovery Shed? Rico Daniels took the fibreglass hi-top roof from a van and turned it into a boat by adding a transom and thwarts!
He then followed in the next episode by building a trailer for it and going fishing on his local river/canal in eastern France.
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Bill-Conner
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by Bill-Conner » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:57 am

Not new Pat, during WW2 behind Japanese lines various members of V Force made sailing boats out of Dodge LOrry bonnets with sails from the cloth from the jute parachutes and sailed on the big lakes. This is documented in David Atkins excellent little books The Forgotten Major and The Reluctant Major.

Rupert
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by Rupert » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:06 am

I was given a roof box recently... no, surely that way lies madness...
Rupert

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GAVinT
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by GAVinT » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:39 pm

Probably more suitable to be converted to a jet ski? :mrgreen:

ptostu
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by ptostu » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:45 pm

I am enjoying reading this thread I am thinking of building a hull next year and quite fancy a scow or tunnel moth are there any plans about
Cheers Stuart
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JimC
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by JimC » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:57 pm

ptostu wrote:I am enjoying reading this thread I am thinking of building a hull next year and quite fancy a scow or tunnel moth are there any plans about
Sure there must be. I have a book called Australian Wooden Boats Vol1, which includes largely undimensioned lines of a Len Morris Mk2 Moth, which is an Australian 1946 design. In some ways its comically simple, all the sections are rectangular!

iowlen
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Re: The ideal flat bottomed boat

Post by iowlen » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:47 am

There are plans available for a Bunyip IX Aussie scow Moth.
One day I intend to build one , not sure what day though as I still have a 'Snubby' scow moth to rebuild !
Rod Mincher has posted a copy of the handwritten Bunyip IX plans & an easier to read table of offests , on his USA blog 'Earwigoagin'.
Hopefully here are the links to the plans & offsets ( scroll down to find both ).

http://earwigoagin.blogspot.com/2011_04_01_archive.html

Cheers ,
Len

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