Moth Roll Call

General chat about boats
ptostu
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by ptostu » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:58 pm

Well I have k3920 magnum 8 prime8 which due to other commitments has been a bit neglected at the mo but is intact and sailable
Decending into insanity or is it an addiction


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scorpion_1925
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by scorpion_1925 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:19 pm

I've got magnum 8 k3941 which I am using every week in handicap racing

A moth even sounds brilliant, I would suggest somewhere in the midlands, so its central to most people
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solentgal
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by solentgal » Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:33 pm

I know I haven't made it to a meeting yet (to participate anyway).....not good with people, although I'm sure you are all lovely folk.....but the idea of a decent "flutter" gathering for an event (can't remember if we decided that was the appropriate collective term) may be enough to tempt me out if I still own Europa K2588 next year.....she won't need much to get her ready. Nobody seems interested in buying her, and I have solved the storage issue now too, so I probably will still have her :)

The one thing that has put me off in the past is the need for racing insurance, but from reading the thread re insurance it would seem that I may be able to get short term cover for the occasional event.......but I also know that if you mention the words "International Moth" they seem to want a huge premium? Any thoughts anyone?

Ian.....K2539 (my other Europa) was passed on to a chap in the Southampton area a few months ago in bits, and I did recommend this site, so we may hear progress at some point hopefully

Sami.
Sami.

simonmw
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by simonmw » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:41 pm

Sami, I did get one quote for third party insurance for a Moth- and put the name of the company up on the insurance thread- it only came out at £33 I think for 12 months, which I thought was quite reasonable.

To me, third party insurance wouldn't be an issue, as part of the fun of keeping something like an old Moth is repairing it if you are unfortunate enough to break it!

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Nessa
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by Nessa » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:58 am

Stepehn has the magnum 5 here at Hunts, plus Jonny is custodian of the mint turquoise mystery machine. I have the Peril which barely counts but is a thing of joy.

How many moths are going to Banbury? Should I attempt to cajole the lads over?
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Mcglashon
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by Mcglashon » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:21 pm

re. a classic Moth event. The Hunts meeting was excellent and Nessa permitting, I think it would be an ideal venue for next year.Geographically ideal.

Spiderman
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by Spiderman » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:37 pm

How many moths are going to Banbury? Should I attempt to cajole the lads over?
At the moment there will be one or two depending whether Lyndon can make it. I am definitely going with the Shelley to give it a final outing this year before putting it back in the shed for the winter. It may reappear briefly if the weather stays reasonable into the Autumn and there is something else "Mothy" to go to.
It would be good to see the purple sieve and the minty marvel at Banbury if they are both servicable and the lads are up for it... Hope to see you there.

Cheers

Ian

alan watson
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by alan watson » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:55 am

This sounds a great idea but could we start by emailing a data base list for all moth owners to complete and send on.
Is this technically possible ?
We need a design history to tell the development story of this extraordinary class from Olive topperish shape to fully flying aerodynamic flyers is a tale worth telling. It would be good too to identify the innovators and give credit to the designers and builders.
The other thing that might be considered is to strata the designs into similar blocks - wingless skiff narrow and flyers immediately come to mind.
The other thought is tying in to the flying boys via the Int Moth web site and even seeking to join in their open meetings.
I have ideas but not much success at implementation. I know Mike Cooke who design builds and sails high riders would like to see the vintage wing as not being separate from the flying boys.
I am happy to help but don't know where to start.
Cheers Alan

scorpion_1925
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by scorpion_1925 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:16 am

Sounds like a great plan to me
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davidh
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by davidh » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:32 am

Ian, Nessa and other Mothists.

I can but agree wholeheartedly with everything that has been said on here.

Personally, I'd love to do the Moth story, for my sins I know many of the 'movers and shakers' from way back when and I'm pretty convinced that I could get them to sit down and tell their stories. It is interesting that as I plough on with the Merlin Rocket book, I've been stashing away other odd snippets that come my way - as I said in a post on here just earlier in the week, I found a picture showing Tony Blatchford, a very young John Claridge and Chris Eyre!

Sadly, even in the ever youthful Moths, you're loosing the story at an alarming rate. Just this year you've seen the passing of McCutcheon and Steve Harris (amongst others), once their papers get sent off in black bags to the tip (which all too often is what happens in these cases) the trail is cold.

Funnily enough, I was having what I hope will be a 'significant' conversation with an important person from the wider sailing scene on this worry loss of our heritage just yesterday. We both agreed that something must be done but as yet, there is no clear way forward as to what should be done. I've no axe to grind with the National Maritime Museum at Falmouth, other than to say that for a while hopes were raised that they would become a focal point for the 'knowledge' side of our heritage, but instead their position as primarily a 'tourist attraction' means that there seems little interest in saving anything other than 'things'!

But back to the Moth history; I already had the US side of this well sorted and the way boats came over in the post WW1 years to race on the lake in Regents Park - this is the boat that would become the Brent One Design and ultimately the British Moth. Straight away you can see how the 'storyline' would need to be 'inclusive', for it would be hard to tell the whole story without reference to the other Moths, be they British or Europa. I've also got a fair bit on the Scows (from doing the DSM articles on Scows) and the work done by Peter Milne here in the UK, not to mention the Aussie kitchen door boats.

As one who has already done the book of one international class (the Contender) doing the story of the Moth HAS to reflect the international aspect of the class history. You'll quickly fall flat on your face if you try to tell the story of an international class from a UK perspective - it just won't work!

The $64,000 question: is there any interest in the wider IM fleet in a detailed history, or is it just the enlightened few that are posting on here?

Dougal
David H

scorpion_1925
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by scorpion_1925 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:23 pm

I'm interested in the history but that could be partly due to studying yacht and small craft design at university.

The history would be really good but to create just a boat register I would suggest having a look at the lark website for theirs is one of the best I've come across
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davidh
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by davidh » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:41 pm

1925,

The Lark site does well, but for a real grip on the history, the Merlins and 14s are probably the best 'served' classes that I've had to deal with, though that said, the GP14s are the most media savvy class I've had the pleasure of dealing with as a working journalist. Populating a database is a great starting point but unless you can capture the thinking behind the developments, the story will end up as dry and 'sterile' as the small print on an insurance policy.

Having done the Contender book and being 60%+ through the Merlin Rocket book, in the end the story is not about the boats but the people who wanted them, tweaked them, wrecked them and generally made them what they are today.

Your own class is a great example - you only have to look at the modern Scorpion and a boat from the 1970s to see how far you've advanced - and that is in a 'one design' class!

D
David H

scorpion_1925
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by scorpion_1925 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:57 pm

I agree David, we have a pretty good record in the scorpions too, and there are a couple of members who know the subtle differences between builders but it's not written down so could potentially be lost
Scorpion 1925
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solentgal
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by solentgal » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:43 pm

There are some who are passionate about the history of the Moth, and we all have a slightly different take on the situation, but the immediate need (in my opinion) is the collection of all the info in one place.......we can sort it out and use it later, but info is being lost as time marches on. There is so much info in old year books.........I learned a lot from reading the early ones on the earlier IM website, but as we know, the archive has been put aside (for now anyway). It really needs someone to collect and scan it all and put it in one place. I am not well placed to do this unfortunately, as I was never involved in the racing or the social aspect of the class......I'm not a people person..... I just sailed for pleasure and watched from afar.......but there must still be a lot of knowledge/memories from the birth of the IM as a class out there, plus all the exciting development over the years......it was in the early 60s that it all started to happen so there are plenty of folk still around. Let's not worry about how we should eventually tell a story just yet, why not just get the info where it can be used as reference to all those interested and the see if we can sort it into a time-line and maybe a readable format later............how I wish I had copied and saved all the yearbook files on the archive a few years ago now! (got a few tho)
Sami.

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Max McCarthy
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by Max McCarthy » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:08 pm

If it is possible, I would love to see all the (known of!) history of the IM class to be amalgamated in one place, it would give us a brilliant insight into the already (at the time) innovative design of boat, that started the whole thing, of the class that we know and call the moth today.....not just this, but also there are some interesting quirks to the moth class, for example the way that the King of Siam sailed a moth right up until he had his royal duties to attend to, or the way that (I think it was the Japanese?) the Japanese Olympic sailing team used to train in moths, to get better skills for balance over the opposition. And from the early days in 1928 up to when it literally gained wings and flight by, well the earliest known example I know of is Andy Paterson (1994) although, I do remember (vaguely) hearing of an earlier foiling moth.

However, I think the most interesting bit of the history of the moth, is not either end of the class (the beginnings or taking flight), but the long bit in the middle, which as far as I can find online is largely undocumented, as a result I am rather ignorant of it. But things like the Magnum series, the skols, and scows, and of course when the class became almost two, with the scows and skiff 'revolution' within the class. But the spanning from, say; 1940 - 1990 I feel is rather an interesting era for the class, despite the fact I largely know little about it. And of course the 'spin-off's' - the Tiger Moth (possibly one of the most interesting), the british moth, New Zealand moth, and of course the Europa (or Europe, as it is now).

But not just this, it is the way, that other than possible the use of asymmetric's (and symmetric's for that matter), trapezes and sliding seats, the moth has almost always been (since its start) at the forefront of the technology of that era. And this, I suppose represents the way that sailing has changed over the years, which in a sense could be a metaphor for the way that views of sailing have changed (I guess) over the years. Of course, when I say changing has changed over the years, I don't just mean the hull shape, but also the sails, construction, and the way they are sailed.

So, I think the moth history would be a remarkably interesting subject to divulge into. I just hope, over the years, not too much has been lost, and we (or people with more knowledge, than I) can save it before it is too late.....

Cheers,

Max

EDIT: just found out, the first foiling moth was sailed in February 1972 by Frank Raisin, followed by Ian Ridge (1988) and Andy in 1994.
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