Moth Roll Call

General chat about boats
simonmw
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by simonmw » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:35 pm

Max- and anyone else interested- Anything you would like to know about Tiger Moth, I am of course happy to oblige!

I don't know every last detail by any means, but I do have a pretty good idea of her ownership history and the mods she has undergone over the years... Also having the genuine article to go out into the shed and look at is a step in the right direction...

Simon.
Current custodian of-
Micro 18
Tiger Moth
'Gentleman Jim' Moth GBR3936
'Dragon' Moth GBR3848
Merlin Rocket 3521
Buell XB12R Firebolt
Landrover 110 Defender
And a big shed to keep them in...

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Nessa
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by Nessa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:00 pm

I have bought McGlashon's skol moth. The minty green mystery machine ought really to be for sale....but she will calm down and I will hide it in a shed.

edited to say I now appear to be the fourth cvrda owner of this boat - Sami- Max - Pete - me. I have only a distant memory of Max's orange stripes, so I have no idea of what I'm getting here, of what Max and Pete did to the boat since Sami had it. Can anyone enlighten me?

I have been looking for a cvrda eligible single hander for a while so eventually couldn't resist.

She is not impressed.
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solentgal
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by solentgal » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:58 am

Really Nessa? I had no idea it was my old boat.... I was watching it on ebay (of course :) ), but there were no pics, so was non the wiser.
She's a nice little boat and I had a lot of fun sailing her.....be interesting to see pics if you dare get her out in daylight when 'er indoors is around :D
Sami.

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Nessa
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by Nessa » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:10 am

well so far as I know, Peter bought it from Max and Max bought it from you?

I have fessed up to her indoors. She is not best pleased but is overlooking that quite a few boats have been rehomed recently - ToY, Magnum 5, kestrels, plus I very meanly pulled the guilt thing by pointing out she is never around or willing to crew... :twisted:

I just want a nice littel boat, relatively winter proof, to sail about in and have fun. plus a skol is a natural extension to my fleet!
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Max McCarthy
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by Max McCarthy » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:07 pm

simonmw wrote:Max- and anyone else interested- Anything you would like to know about Tiger Moth, I am of course happy to oblige!

I don't know every last detail by any means, but I do have a pretty good idea of her ownership history and the mods she has undergone over the years... Also having the genuine article to go out into the shed and look at is a step in the right direction...

Simon.
Great, thanks Simon.

To start off, I don't suppose you know what the inspiration was behind the Tiger Moth? Was it to create a new two person moth type class, or as a one off?

I have heard the Tiger Moth has an assymetric spinnaker, is this true?

What type of material was used to construct the legendary Tiger Moth?

How fast is it in comparison to your old ICOD?

And, if you race it, what sort of handicap do you race it with?

Sorry to bombard you with questions about the Tiger Moth! It is just such an interesting boat.

Cheers,

Max
AC 298 TimeWarp
Cherub 2627 - Sgt Murphy (nee Last Amber Dragon)
Farr 3.7 (slowly progressing build)
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simonmw
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by simonmw » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:41 pm

For the first question, I can only speculate... The B14 had become popular down under in the late '80s, and the seeds of the assymetric revolution were sown. It makes sense to me that someone this side of the globe would want to develop an assymetric boat at some point, and I believe Tiger Moth was the first in this country, although stand to be corrected on this! As for whether she was ever intended to be a class boat, once again I can only speculate that this was the case. I do remember her at the 1992(?) dinghy show in the days when it was at Crystal Palace, I was 10 or 11 years old at the time- it would seem odd for a class association to go to the expense and trouble of getting a boat at the show if there wasn't an element of promotion involved, whether this was the case, and whether she was intended to be the prototype for a one design class or possibly the basis for a new development class, I am not too sure. I did email John Claridge a while back to try and glean some more information, but haven't had a response as yet.

She currently has a Laser 4000 kite- I am revising the bowsprit system this winter and want to experiment with adding a second set of spreaders and changing to a masthead spinnaker next season, although it remains to be seen how controllable this might be on a waterline so narrow!

She is built of 3mm tortured ply and epoxy, skinned with kevlar on the inside and a very light glass scrim on the outside.

Compared to the IC- it is difficult to say really, without sailing one alongside the other- she feels at least as fast, although that could be wishful thinking... Upwind she is a fantastic boat, has the length and narrow waterline of the canoe but is quite a bit lighter and with more sail area. Surprisingly not that unstable though, definitely the easiest to keep the right way up of all the moths I currently have, certainly no more difficult than the canoe. I think the canoe would probably have the edge in marginal hiking conditions as she needs a bit of breeze to get her planing upwind, and tends to drag the transom a bit when it's light. Reaching and downwind she goes as you would expect a light skiff with a big spinnaker to go, which can be anything between ballistic and catastrophic depending on the conditions and skill of the driver... Much better behaved than a solo moth though, it's relatively easy to keep the bow out of the water, I certainly can't say the same of my Gentleman Jim.

As for the handicap, again one can only experiment and/or guess. This year I did a local regatta in 2 sail configuration as a mouse had chewed a hole in the spinnaker while it was in the shed- sailing off 940 as a handicap for main and jib only. We didn't win anything due to the tide not being in far enough to put the daggerboard down on half the course on day 1, and the mainsheet blocks pulling out of the deck on day 2- but when she was upright and going, I think she was easily going fast enough to sail to that number, I actually think it might be a bit lenient. We pulled out a half mile lead on a Contender on a 1 mile beat, which should give you some idea!

Simon.
Current custodian of-
Micro 18
Tiger Moth
'Gentleman Jim' Moth GBR3936
'Dragon' Moth GBR3848
Merlin Rocket 3521
Buell XB12R Firebolt
Landrover 110 Defender
And a big shed to keep them in...

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Nessa
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by Nessa » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:44 pm



foiling Shelley!
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scorpion_1925
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by scorpion_1925 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:51 pm

incredible
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International moth magnum 8

Ford Capri

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Max McCarthy
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by Max McCarthy » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:51 pm

Hi Simon,

Many thanks for the in-depth response, certainly very interesting.

Particularly that it seems it has taken from the B14 and other asymmetric classes as far as designing came from. Although, as you correctly say, we can only speculate.

Once again, thanks for the reply, it would appear that the boat is not only fantastic in its thinking, but also in its sailing.

Cheers,

Max
AC 298 TimeWarp
Cherub 2627 - Sgt Murphy (nee Last Amber Dragon)
Farr 3.7 (slowly progressing build)
National 12 3337

simonmw
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by simonmw » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:28 pm

Certainly a great sailing boat- I am hoping to have her out and about a lot more next season, if anyone would like to come for a sail they would be more than welcome.

I'm still not entirely sure why Tiger Moth didn't really catch on at the time, although I think a lot of it might have been to do with public perception- particularly bearing in mind that the ISO came along only 3 years later and was a huge success. Tiger Moth is actually not an extreme boat by modern standards at all, but might have appeared so at the time.

Perhaps also she suffered from the reputation the Moth class has always had for being difficult to sail, and was possibly thought of as being too difficult for many people as a result- in comparison with the ISO which was marketed by a major manufacturer and met with a very different reception. It's a shame, as she is well within the reach of most weekend sailors of reasonable ability to get in and have a blast.
Current custodian of-
Micro 18
Tiger Moth
'Gentleman Jim' Moth GBR3936
'Dragon' Moth GBR3848
Merlin Rocket 3521
Buell XB12R Firebolt
Landrover 110 Defender
And a big shed to keep them in...

alan watson
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by alan watson » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:54 pm

RE TIGER MOTH

I understood that John made her for him and his partner and that it was an ( almost) straight forward magnification or rather scale up of another design - presumably a magnum - but which ?

I also understood that it was felt that this scaling up dint really work.

Cheers
ALAN

Rupert
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by Rupert » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:12 pm

Big ad for the Tiger Moth in the 1990 Moth yearbook. Timewise, it is Mag 9 territory, but the only photo is from the stern, so it is tricky to say whether the design is that narrow, but scaled up, but that would be my guess.

John C would probably remember!
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JimC
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by JimC » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:00 pm

I'm pretty sure I've seen it, but can remember almost nothing about it, so presumably didn't make much of an impression...

Rupert
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by Rupert » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:38 am

John C not JimC! As in Mr Claridge.
Rupert

simonmw
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Re: Moth Roll Call

Post by simonmw » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:35 pm

She is very close in shape to a Magnum 8, the significant difference being that she doesn't have the inverse chines/flared topsides of the Magnum designs. Also has a slightly raked stem and is a bit narrower at the transom than a true scale-up of a Magnum 8 would be.

Interestingly, I had a chat with John C before I bought her, and he said the lack of displacement- particularly in the stern- would have been one of the things he might theoretically have addressed had there ever been a MKII version.

Pic attached, please excuse the scruffy trampolines- they have since been replaced!
IMG_00071.jpg
Current custodian of-
Micro 18
Tiger Moth
'Gentleman Jim' Moth GBR3936
'Dragon' Moth GBR3848
Merlin Rocket 3521
Buell XB12R Firebolt
Landrover 110 Defender
And a big shed to keep them in...

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