Fast boat for 30 acre pool.

[trebor]

Paulr (minisail) and myself are looking for a fast 2 hander (suitable for a 30 acre pool), at present we are trying to take over a National 12, but this will probably not come about.
What other boats would be suitable, I have been reading Merlin topic and Solo 7 topic, Paul was a professional model builder so a wooden boat would not be an issue, also regarding Merlin topic and going out to win, I personally would like to win in handicap racing at our club, the boat would be kept in class though, so a boat designed for "winning" on a small pool is required.

[Rupert]

Depends upon your combined weight. If in the 21-22 stone range, then a Firefly will be hard to beat. If much heavier, then an Enterprise would be nice, and if heavier again then an Albacore would be good. However, any of these boats will only win if you learn how to get the best out of them. Main thing I'd say is that a spinnaker boat will be very hard to make work.

A N12 will fit in the Firefly weight band, and you'd need to do some research on which designs are good inland. And even then you'd need to get the club to look at recommended handicaps for old boats if buying a cheap one.

Best be is to borrow the boats and see whether you like them.

[Stephen Hawkins]

Rupert likes the Fireflies and I like the old clinker National 12s.

As Rupert states, weight is the key on both, as they are only 12 ft long.

I am looking for a combined crew weight of 23 stone, max in my Starfish. Most of the time I am sailing just above that weight as I have eaten too many pies.

With a N12, if you pick a later old or classic boat clinker, then there might be more room in them than an earlier vintage N12 or a Firefly. But it also depends on the deck layout. To a point, later fireflies have a bit more room as they have slimmer side decks. Rupert told me this on Sunday!

The types of N12:

1. Slim, nailed, wood on frame, clinker constructed boats with wooden spars - up to mid to late 1950's.
2. Glued Clinker - starts in the mid to late 1950's, as we enter the 1960's designs started to get a lot wider also saw introduction of alloy spars and terylene sails.
3. 4 planker, - early 1970's, simpler construction often wider than the late clinkers. Clean inside of cockpit, if you take the string away!
4. Cold moulded construction? 1980's

etc, etc, I lose interest after that.

Each has advantages and disadvantages, glued clinker boats tend to be wider, with clean cockpits which make them easier to varnish and keep up together. However, they an suffer from glue failure, as they are of that age. Earlier wood on frame boats, do not suffer from glue problems, but often leak, have less room in cockpit and I would not want to strip and varnish the inside of one of those! '4 plankers' offer similar advantages to glued clinkers, except they are more modern, but with all, you will have to pick a design that does well in restricted waters.

I have a thing for clinker boats, although I have been recently looking at 4 plankers as they seem to be good value at the moment. If I had the money and the space I would be bidding on Grimalkin, on fleabay as I type. Nobody seems to want her, but she would definitely fit the bill and has been refurbish recently.

Steve Hawkins

[trebor]

Hi, I am not sure of Pauls weight, but I weigh just over 11 stone, I think Paul is taller and heavier, so probably in excess of 23 stone, their is already a Firefly, which I have crewed and liked a lot, their are 3 wooden Enterprises, several wooden GPs, a wooden Cherub, Miracle half a dozen Mirrors and the National 12 plus all the modern boats. Some of the sailors try to use Spinnakers but so far I have not seen one win a race, so this would not be an issue, neither would trapeze boats.

[roger]

Hi Robert,

I posted you a reply but it got lost somewhere.

The 30 acre pond that Chris Barlow and I sail on is surrounded by trees and is very shifty. Successful boats there are traditional types like Enterprises GPs etc. There is a very quick N12 there but the boats that Chris and I sail there are clinker Merlins. They tack readily and may carry weight a bit better than the 12. They are certainly competitive there and I was pleasantly surprised how well we went at Hunts. which is a bit more open.

[Alan P.]

Graduate? But you two may be a little heavy.

[trebor]

Hi Roger, Swan pool is exactly the same, (but 90% of the time the wind blows onto jetty, this was a major pain for me when I first joined club), I like the look of Merlins, (but not the ones with all the string), a simpler rig would be better.

[roger]

Robert mine has a very simple rig. In fact we don't use the spinnaker as its to shifty

[trebor]

Hi Alan, I have yet to see a Graduate in the flesh, pictures look ok,
I burned both my little fingers working the Spinnaker on the clubs Laser Bahia, (that was wearing gloves which were ruined ), the sheet is about 4mm and 30 feet long.

[Stephen Hawkins]

Our lake is of a similar size to Rupert's club, circa 85 acres. Spinnaker boats and asymmetrics do not stand a chance in handicap races. If you want to win at our club, you need a powerful 2 sail boat or a single hander. Even planing opportunities are limited as you cannot guarantee the wind direction during a single leg, let alone the entire course. Freaks the sea sailors out.

At my club, the boats to beat are Albacores and Solo's. There is a sweet spot when it comes to PY for our lake, and that is 1100 +/-100. Following that, as simpler boat as possible, not that the Albacore's are that simple, with raking rigs, etc, but they only have 2 sails. A powerful boat that carries its way also helps when the wind drops or you get a header at the windward mark and you can rely on your forward momentum to get you round. Where a slower, less powerful boat, is forced to put in a couple of extra tacks, etc.

That said, early MRs only had a relatively small spinnaker, so it might even be okay to campaign one at our lake, forgetting the spinnaker most of the time. Must get mine bank on the water.

Cheers

Steve H

[Pat]

I am selling an up-together well sorted Lark which is still competitive on the open circuit and would suit your weight. A late Parker Mk2 with a set of club racing sails and trolley for £1600. We did quite well with it at Shearwater (where four flags on marks fly in four different directions it's so shifty!) but we are too heavy now so have gone up to the Albacore which needs the weight. With a set of newer sails it would be competitive at the nationals.
It is a spinnaker boat but goes well on two sails and there's a lively class circuit with several fleets in the West Midlands - South Staffs, Shustoke, Barnt Green and Northants for example.
At present it only has a trolley but we're planning to sort out a trailer for it and up the asking price appropriately.

[trebor]

Paul, has won Nessas mystery boat on ebay, search over

[Rupert]

Excellent - looks good. You'll have fun - the handicapping could be a problem, but if you have time to sail her in a few races, and lend her to some of the other racers to see how they do, you will work out a fair figure fairly quickly.

[trebor]

Hi Rupert, Paul has taken this one on for chris and himself to sail. I think you would struggle to work out a py for this one at a small club.