Thingummyjig

General chat about boats
Stephen Hawkins
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Location: The much maligned Swindon Town

Thingummyjig

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:21 pm

What's the thing called, often seen on more modern boats, a bar that goes on the top of the boom diagonal to the mast and does the job of a kicker/vang or whatever you want to call it? The do-hickey? The whatchummecallit?

Confused,

Of Swindon
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

Rupert
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Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Re: Thingummyjig

Post by Rupert » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:24 pm

Gnav. Vang backwards. Really, it is upside down, but that would be trickier on a keyboard...

Parts gnikcik is tricky, too.
Rupert

JimC
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Contact:

Re: Thingummyjig

Post by JimC » Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:54 pm

Otherwise called a push kicker...

Michael Brigg
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Location: Gosport, UK

Re: Thingummyjig

Post by Michael Brigg » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:59 pm

Rupert wrote:Gnav. Vang backwards. Really, it is upside down, but that would be trickier on a keyboard...

Parts gnikcik is tricky, too.
"Rekcik eht!" might work?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon_language

(I never thought modern sailing would teach me to talk in Klingonese.)
Michael Brigg

Itchen Ferry
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Re: Thingummyjig

Post by Itchen Ferry » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:34 pm

Was looking at the GNAV idea as I'm a lankster and cleaning up the area under the boom appeals.

Are there disadvantages to the GNAV over a vang or kicker cascade, i guess the c.o.g is raised, otherwise?

Thanks

Dave

stuw
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Re: Thingummyjig

Post by stuw » Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:06 pm

Hoe about a temple vang? Just to chuck something else into the equation

stuw
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Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:20 pm

Re: Thingummyjig

Post by stuw » Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:08 pm

Dave, the gnav alters the mast bend in some very strange ways. You really do need lowers and even then?

Stephen Hawkins
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:41 am
Location: The much maligned Swindon Town

Re: Thingummyjig

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:42 am

That was the idea with me as well.

Spider, the National 12 I recently acquired, is quite nice, but it has not got enough seating area up forward really, and I always seem to be almost trying to sit on my crew when trying to trim the boat - otherwise I get water in through the transom flaps. The thwart seems to be too far back, making trimming the boat difficult as there is nowhere else for my crew to sit, in light airs, as I also almost want to be astride of it.

When sailing with Katy (13) who is a small 7 stone, we get by, but I really need her weight further forward at times, and I will make no friends by telling her to squeeze herself up forward on the floor, or perched on the centerboard supports. It would be better if she were helming, which she does no occasion, now, but only in lighter conditions, as she is still very much a learner and is not strong enough yet. Even then, I find myself sitting on the forward centerboard casing rather than the thwart.

Last weekend I sailed with a chap the same size as me, and frankly it was embarrassing. Between us we had 28 stone on board, which was well over weight, but it would have been easier if I could have got more of that weight further forward.

When sailing it single handed, I am definitely astride of the thwart at all times, which slows down the tacking whilst I disentangle my feet, etc.

I am pondering over the possibility of putting in some more seating leading forward, both sides, or even moving the thwart forward 8 inches or so. I will need to check the rules obviously. But then this brings the crew closer to the kicker, etc, which could raise a new issue.

The more modern a National 12 gets, the more awkward it is, they get shallower, lower boom and very tight up front, and the 21-23 combined crew weight is really limiting - all in the quest for more speed in open water - over anything else. I am back on a diet, but am unlikely to be the right side of 14 stone before the year is out. So I need to make this boat nicer for loafing around in and having fun.

Sparkle probably has its thwart in a similar position if measured from the transom, but it does have side seating going forward.......Its an older design, and therefore still has some of the creature comforts of a more 'all-rounder' type of boat that the class originally started out as. It is just as wide and roomy as Spider, but is more pleasant to sail in normal circumstances.

I will have to have a think and take some advice on this.

Cheers
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

Rupert
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Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Re: Thingummyjig

Post by Rupert » Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:47 pm

As Stuw said, a gnav changes things in the rig, and puts pressures on things that aren't designed for it, too. What if you move the kicker take off point forwards? No idea what purchase you currently have on it, but there are usually ways of making the shorter travel still work even with a higher purchase.
Rupert

chris
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Re: Thingummyjig

Post by chris » Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:20 pm

Turn the crew round, Stephen, ie don't use he thwart as a seat.

Stephen Hawkins
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Re: Thingummyjig

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:24 pm

Where is she supposed to sit? On the floor?

Just lost my crew.........
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

Rupert
Posts: 6224
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Re: Thingummyjig

Post by Rupert » Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:50 pm

Crew shouldn't be sitting - thats the helm's job!

What you could do is put some bracing pieces across to support the C/B case forwards, and these then can be used by the crew to sit on facing aft.
Rupert

Stephen Hawkins
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:41 am
Location: The much maligned Swindon Town

Re: Thingummyjig

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:45 pm

Yes, I already have those up front, cover with pipe lagging for her boney bottom!

But I have not yet convinced her to use them.

What I might look into is to use them to mount the front of a side seat on. Although I think they are lower. and too far forward.

I will have a closer look this weekend. Hopefully be there on Saturday......

Cheers

Steve
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

phil58490
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:23 pm
Location: Kellow, Looe, Cornwall

Re: Thingummyjig

Post by phil58490 » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:36 pm

When I was a teenager and these boats were new, the jib sheets went down to a shelf below deck level but above the c/board brace and I used to perch on that, sitting facing across the boat. It didn't foul the jib sheet as if I was on the windward side it would be slack or to leeward in light airs I opened the slot by holding the sheet above deck level. I guess crews were not as mutinous back then and comfort never was a high priority.

Having looked at the pictures of your boat you have shelves for the jib fairleads but they are not big enough or the right shape to perch on.
Just across the Tamar in South East Cornwall

Solo 4928
Solo 3406
Hit 5 Sold

Rupert
Posts: 6224
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Re: Thingummyjig

Post by Rupert » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:16 pm

Get her in the Firefly with Kathryn for a couple of races. She'll learn to face backwards, and the 12 will seem huge after!
Rupert

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