moths and noodles

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milesj
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moths and noodles

Post by milesj » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:01 pm

Have just aquired a Magnum 7.

And in need of a lot of practice. It's been suggested, that to ease the learning curve I stuff swim noodles in the wing/trampolines.

Having read quite a lot of articles, mainly ausie ones, there seesm to be a consensus that too much buoyancy in the wings is going to make the boat turn turtle and be extremely difficult to resubmerge a wing. Too little and it's not worth doing.

So, has anyone any actual figure for what buoyancy in lbs is the max and what is the min that is going work?

I read about 43lbs max per wing, that's about 4 noodles worth. Yet other forums say 30lb max

Thanks in advance
Miles
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Miles

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jpa_wfsc
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Re: moths and noodles

Post by jpa_wfsc » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:52 am

Hi Miles

I think it would be a positively safe thing to do to use a mast head float to prevent an inversion.

The problem with 'noodles' on the rack is that they would promote inversion, however little you use - so to some extent will always be making a negative impact on safety. Lots of noodles and you would never be able to right from an inversion!
j./

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ptostu
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Re: moths and noodles

Post by ptostu » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:15 am

Miles I have never used noodles but my 8 came with polystyrene shaped into the tramps, if they hang under the wing thay will act as a brake as the wing touches the water and screw the wing further in, if you can squeeze some in the pocket where you wing bars go through thay would out-of the way, and from experience a carbon mast has helped lots as it takes away some of the weigh from above
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JimC
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Re: moths and noodles

Post by JimC » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:48 am

jpa_wfsc wrote:I think it would be a positively safe thing to do to use a mast head float to prevent an inversion.
!
A Moth with a masthead float is going to blow downwind faster than you can swim in sailing gear, so I would hesitate to describe that as a safety benefit. In addition the extra weight and consequent inertia up there is going to make the boat a lot more difficult to sail.

solentgal
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Re: moths and noodles

Post by solentgal » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:41 pm

Interesting....and something that is much on my mind at present....(no wings on the scow, and more or less destined to turtle without mast-head flotation).

If the mast is not allowed to go below the water level, then the noodles become positive buoyancy to help with righting momentum on the average skiff.......assuming the angle between wing and mast is less than 90 degrees by enough to counter the angle between mast to water, ...think about it and see pic below of me "playing" with my Magnum in shallow water a while back......if you imagine the mast at water level, then the submerged wing would have positive buoyancy and surely it will help with righting momentum??..... I didn't have any wing floats then BTW.

However....I really do have to agree with Jim re the boat moving downwind at speed.....I'm sure we've all experienced a windward capsize where the boat out performs us.......my last L*ser capsize to windward a couple of years ago was a bit scary for this reason!....and Moths with the wings are nearly as wind ridden when capsized as they are under sail!

Way back in the day when I was instructing, we used sails with a bit of buoyancy sewn into the head of the sails (this was on Wayfarers) and it was amazing how much that helped with the standard capsize drill that we taught at the time......the weight/inertia issue was virtually non-existent as there was just a slightly thicker top panel on the sail with closed cell foam......but any dinghy that is light, (Moth,Topper, L*ser, etc) and capsizes with mast not dipping much below water level at the top is likely to be a liability in the race downwind.......I've rescued many as an instructor....and chased many as a victim....
My instinct is to go with some sort of mast-head flotation though...don't fall out, and don't let her turtle.......but then again it depends where you're sailing.....a pond where you'll drift ashore?....or open sea where you may not..........this is not a simple question/solution!
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milesj
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Re: moths and noodles

Post by milesj » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:43 pm

Thanks for all the replies, I'm going to try 3 noodles about 25lb buoyancy: If i can sink the wing with that attached I should be ok if she goes turtle.

It's the getting back on board after a capsize I'm struggling with (haven't managed it yet!) Hoping the required righting force/effort will be reduced and and stop the boat toppling straight over again.

Also thinking of a sling from the bar ends as something to step on and help stepping back in as the boat comes up. This has no doubt been tried before, so will it help?

More swimming and neck deep capsize drills next week.

Miles
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Re: moths and noodles

Post by Obscured by clouds » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:50 pm

on my old Mystere Catamaran, I used to attach the free end of the mainsheet to my trap harness, so that when I was s/handed if I came off, it would capsize the boat, and keep me with the boat, albeit some 20' away on the end of the rope.

I was always aware of the possibility of getting tangled in the mainsheet, and as it happened never had to test it for real. perhaps this is an option worth persuing, rather than a rapidly disappering dinghy
Tony



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solentgal
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Re: moths and noodles

Post by solentgal » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:23 pm

It seems to be normal to re-mount over the aft end of the wing onto the hull having got her upright.......seen it done many times, but not tried that way myself......makes sense, as it keeps the weight as near central as possible when boarding again.
Sami.

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Re: moths and noodles

Post by JimC » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:39 pm

Have you got the rudder on elastic so that its held roughly centrally, and can you readily grab the mainsheet so you've got something to balance against?

milesj
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Re: moths and noodles

Post by milesj » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:46 pm

Yes, had rudder on elastic and centred, mainsheet in hand, but boat just kept flipping over as soon as the submerged wing was clear of the water. Haven't had such a workout for ages.

Miles
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scorpion_1925
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Re: moths and noodles

Post by scorpion_1925 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:48 pm

Hi

I've got noodles on my magnum 8, when I was first learning to sail it I had 2 under each wing, now I just run with one under each wing. I am planning on getting a new set of tramps at some point so I can get them inside the wing material rather than suspended underneath. it is true they do catch the water sooner than the wing bar but it makes you concentrate more on your balance, I've never found that cause the boat to invert, in fact I have never inverted it.

as for getting back in I wait for the moment when the boat is just coming level and drop from the wing into the cockpit as it comes up. I find that a lot easier than trying to climb over the wing once upright.
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milesj
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Re: moths and noodles

Post by milesj » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:32 pm

Have made some 'socks' to fit ends of trampolines, they keep the noodles raised out of the water, I hope.

Will try and test these next week.

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milesj
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Re: moths and noodles

Post by milesj » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:31 pm

Got afloat at last.

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bornagainmothie
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Re: moths and noodles

Post by bornagainmothie » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:55 pm

Well done! See, you didn't need the stabilisers after all :wink:

Actually, its much more difficult in v light airs but you look to have found a good stable position in the boat there, from which it will be easier to react to changes. Less (jumping about) is more where Moths are concerned.

Keep up the good work

Lyndon

milesj
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Re: moths and noodles

Post by milesj » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:36 pm

Thanks for the vote of confidence Lyndon, but still can't get back on after a capsize :( , will have to try 3 noodles instead of 2.

Oxford here I come. Need to be shown this getting back on bit.
Miles

Harrier no 5
International Moth, Magnum 7 K3905
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Merlin Rocket 3542
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