Enterprise lack of pointing

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trebor
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Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by trebor » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:05 pm

My Enterprise for some reason just will not point, it is being outpointed by virtually every boat at club, from Mirror's to Topper's, can't seem to find problem, looked at all usual suspects, any ideas ?
Robert
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bornagainmothie
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by bornagainmothie » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:35 pm

Usual suspects would be:

Mast rake - Is it somewhere near the recommended settings? Check on one of the sailmaker's sites for a tuning guide. Mast foot position is usually fixed on an Ent, but channel type step with pins can be adjusted. Stick with the light to medium wind settings for pond sailing.

Jib Halyard - Enough tension to prevent the jib luff from sagging. Don't try 450lbs like it might suggest in the tuning guides, a classic Ent will probably use a Highfield lever which is quite adequate. Do check shroud plate and bow fixings are solidly attached.

Jib fairleads - again check the tuning guides for the sheeting angles. Old sails may not be quite the same cut or simply stretched so check there is enough tension on the leech of the jib.

Centreboard - Is it going vertical when fully down? Its worth rolling the boat over on land to check for obstructions or damage. Pivot bolt hole worn oval? Stoppers on the handle in wrong place? Slot gasket chewed up and snagging the board?

Kicking Strap - does it work efficiently? Tuning guides will advise how much to use.

If all those check out ok, then its down to the helmsman to get the best out of what's there, in conjunction with the crew of course. Jib set tight in, but not so tight as to crease the foot of the sail. Leave some shape to create airflow. Main should be in tight, but not on the centreline, end of the boom tucked inside transom is fine in light winds. Once sails are set, watch the jib tell-tales and steer to keep them streaming on both sides of the sail. Keep crew and helm's weight forward in the boat, ideally around the centreboard position. Helm moves back only when crew needs to be hiking out.

For pond sailing, spotting and following the wind shifts and tacking in the right places can gain far more than fine tuning the rig settings.

Hope that helps

Lyndon

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trebor
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by trebor » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:03 pm

Sails are nearly new used about half a dozen times.
foils recently varnished, in good condition.
Had safety boat following us about trying to see if they could spot anything.
Did 3 races complete nightmare, worked like maniacs trying to get bl##dy thing to point, first race was lapped by every boat, only Lasers were faster boats than Ent'.
Robert
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sam mason
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by sam mason » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:15 am

The most common reasons for not pointing are
1 Too muck kicker
2 jib fairleads too far forward in lightish winds
Rule of thumb. Step the mast, the mast step should be as far forward as the rules allow measuring parallel to the base line. Hoist the jib and tension ( about 350 400 POUNDS) Hoist tape measure up mast until it shows 18 feet 6 inches at the goose neck. Swing it back and it should be about 21ft 3 inches BUT NOT LESS at the top of the transom. While the tape is up there measure to the chainplate eyes. The measurement doesn't matter but it should be the same both sides.
Cleat the jib and using a straight stick follow the line of the jib sheet to the jib luff . It should about 1/3 of the way down the jib from the top. Any higher it strangles the leach much lower and it opens the leech and depowers the jib. Don't over sheet the jib when sailing . It should never be board tight Ease about 1/4 inch from tight and try that.
Kicker. Modern sails don't tend to like a lot of kicker and in light to moderate you can override with the mainsheet . A very wise man once told me that there is more skill in letting the kicker off than there ever was in pulling it on.
After that just fiddle about with one bit at a time until you get it right
Sam

davidh
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by davidh » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:30 am

Robert,

Pointing isn't normally an issue with an Enterprise, they can be very close winded.

Sam and Ian have given you lots of great technical advice to which I would add one more snippet.

Get someone else to sail the boat whilst you observe progress. If the problem was a bad as you say, something obvious should be visible and in 10 minutes you can see it and correct it.
There is another factor here; I find working hard to windward (even in the lightest of airs) to be more of a cerebral exercise than a physical one. If you end up thinking that the boat isn't pointing, you end up trying to make it so - and in doing that, you ensure that the one thing you're not doing is letting the boat sail naturally....

Check the boat settings as advised, watch someone else sail the boat - make more changes and then - let the boat do the work foor you

D
David H

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trebor
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by trebor » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:16 am

I have been thinking about this, I have several setups for this boat, different length tillers for cruising etc, Aft and Centre/Aft sheeting, I think I may have had cruising tiller on, this is half the length of normal racing tiller, means I would have been sat right aft, even at full stretch you couldn't very far forwards.
Robert
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Spiderman
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by Spiderman » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:05 pm

Sitting too far aft certainly wouldn't help your pointing so that may well be at least part of the problem. Most boats go better upwind with the crew weight a bit further forward particularly in lighter winds, in fact the Enterprise generally prefers the weight forward both upwind and down until you reach planing conditions. I would suggest trying your longer tiller and sitting further forward to see if that improves your pointing, but if you still feel that you are suffering relative to other boats then refer back to some of the excellent advice given in earlier posts.
Ian M

sam mason
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by sam mason » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:34 pm

Weight position. measure from the top of the foredeck at the stemhead 21 inches around the forefoot and mark it in a way you can see when sitting on the sidedeck. and aim to keep the mark about on the waterline Get used to this position and note where you and the crew are in the boat. Also note the wake and bubbles at the transom by looking through the flaps. This should be tried in f 1-2 until the best position is found. The centreboard should rake slightly forward of verticle while the boat is flat fore and aft. Some one has already said DONT PINCH.
Sam

Rupert
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by Rupert » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:13 pm

It is easy to miss lifts, but headers are obvious. Combine them, and you end up way off the wind. Get a race coach to sail with you, to pick up any issues and help with boat tune.
Rupert

SoggyBadger
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by SoggyBadger » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:12 am

My suggestions:

1) Join the class association if you're not already a member.

2) Do some of the the local open meetings. Enterprises have a good open meeting circuit in the Midlands. Join in. You'll learn a hell of a lot more class racing against people who know how to make the boat go (and will be happy to pass that knowledge on) than hacking around trying to beat Lasers on handicap.
Best wishes


SB

Graham L
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by Graham L » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:06 pm

Just a thought looking at all the very valid points on here - have you got the outhaul tight enough? Too slack and it will stop you dead.

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trebor
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by trebor » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:46 pm

I have looked at most of points posted, will ask another member to sail boat, at least that will eliminate me if it's still the same.
Robert
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jpa_wfsc
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by jpa_wfsc » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:57 pm

As DH said - a fair bit of the issue could be trying to point to hard. Consciously let the boat off a little, and with more boat speed, board and rudder will be much more effective and you will indeed be sailing closer to the wind anyhow..
j./

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alan williams
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by alan williams » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:13 pm

We had the same problem with an INT14. Jeremy Pudney then the 14 champion reached in to the boat grasped the centreboard case and found side to side movement. Something we had not thought about. We stiffened the case and after that Audacity was one of the highest pointing boats in the fleet.
Cheers Al

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trebor
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Re: Enterprise lack of pointing

Post by trebor » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:16 pm

Hi Al,
I checked physical bits of boat last night, what a coincidence, not centre board but rudder, holding blade still you could move tiller at least 3 inches either way.
Robert
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