Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

General chat about boats
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Tony4488
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:28 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Tony4488 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:34 pm

Lifting equipment was available on site today . . . . . the elevated moth has been moved to the ground level. Someone owes me the £10.00 I had to pay plus a donation to the RNLI!

T_G
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:47 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by T_G » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:39 pm

bornagainmothie wrote:I have bought the 2 moths at Lowestoft and will be going on Wednesday to collect them.
Also going on Wednesday midday-ish, so could help.
Funny how people suddenly become busy - so now using an alternative vehicle / trailer / assistance. Unsure whether to take the longer rusty lightweight gig trailer, or the decent slightly too short one, while the pre-arranged perfect trailer has not been returned yet. I suppose as long as I can remove the boat from the premises and find a nearby home then I can return with the other trailer if needed.

Re: Lifting equipment - sounds like sense has prevailed.
@Tony4488 Is the central area clear enough for a trailer?

PM if you want to synchronise for mutual assistance.

Tony4488
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:28 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Tony4488 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:17 pm

The centre aisle is almost completely devoid of boats now. Three more go tomorrow (ex Moths) and I believe the rest go to China in a few weeks (shipping arrangements are currently being discussed by buyer / auctioneers).

bornagainmothie
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by bornagainmothie » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:21 pm

. the elevated moth has been moved to the ground level. Someone owes me the £10.00 I had to pay plus a donation to the RNLI!
That will be me then :) I hope the boat turns out to be worth all this trouble!

Thank you for arranging that Tony, please pm me and i will arrange to reimburse you (unless you are onsite tomorrow, in which case I look forward to meeting you)

Thanks also to Dronskiuk for taking the trouble to search for the other parts.

T_G, look forward to seeing you there and we can help loading.

Cheers
Lyndon

NorfolkNick
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:29 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by NorfolkNick » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:37 pm

All,

Happy to report that Ben Her (Int 14 #85) has been successfully retrieved from the top rack and is now in North Norfolk awaiting restoration, which I hope will be done by this time next year, with thanks to Dronskiuk for his assistance in taking photo's when I was not able to make the pre-sale viewing days.

Upon initial inspection, the boat appears to be in a reasonable state, apart from the two holes that appear to be caused, not on the water, but by a fork lift while at the museum! (what kind of museum does that to it's exhibits???). The general state of the poly tunnel in Lowestoft was a cause of great anger for me and I am relieved that the sale has given us a chance to access at least some of the these boats and care for them. I know of many fleets in Norfolk where the older boats are ~100 years old and yet are raced most weekends in the summer, which is the best place for them. A Museum, even a good one, is no place for a boat, and I get the feeling this was not a particularly good museum.

I have a couple of questions, if anyone has any information on Ben Her, history, photographs, etc, I would be very interested in putting together a small archive to go with the boat. I will be visiting the Museum of the Broads to have a look through Ernest Woods papers to see what is there, but if anyone has any other information it would be gratefully received. It appears from a spare sail found in the boat that she was at one time bermudan rigged, and there is evidence from the deck fittings (fairleads and cleats) that she at one time had a foresail, although the current setup is lugsail.

Secondly, the boat appears for the most part original, with a brass centerplate still in place, but the centerplate lifting winch is aluminium and does not appear from marks on the hull to be the original one, which I would guess would have been bronze / brass? So does anyone in the CVDRA have an old one being used to hold open the shed door, that would be better used in an old 14? If so I would be very please to hear from you, so that we can come to an arrangement.

Nick
International 14 #85.

chris
Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: somerset

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by chris » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:25 pm

I expect the plate is bronze rather than brass. I gather that a modern ready-to-race complete 14 now weighs less than an original bronze plate!
I think I still have a c/b winch going begging - I will have a look.
Glad to hear Ben Her has found a very good home. I asked about it a couple of times but it never seemed to appear on the list otherwise I was tempted too. I noticed several items in Cardiff which had lot numbers on them that didn't get onto the list too so I asssumed they had been claimed by owners.

Tony4488
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:28 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Tony4488 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:55 pm

Sorry if the poly tunnel caused "much anger" and I am happy to answer any questions / concerns that you may have. It was only ever intended to be an 'over-flow' storage facility and I did my best (as landlord!). It is dry, secure and covered by CCTV.

To the best of my knowledge, the boats were stored on the racks using a tele-handler with no brakes (hence a few appalling holes?). Someone will no doubt 'jump on that' but I watched a few boats being crammed into a small panel van by "experts" yesterday ...... boats on their side and badly 'squished' surely can't be right!

My other paying tenants were happy for you to use their belongings to get Ben Her but would have appreciated if permission had been sought first.

NorfolkNick
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:29 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by NorfolkNick » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:51 pm

My apologies, as I was not really clear earlier, but it was the state of the boats in the polly tunnel rather than the tunnel itself which caused dismay. Non of this was the fault of the landlord, just upsetting to see so many beautiful, but badly neglected boats, and very happy that at least some of them can now be given the attention they deserve.
International 14 #85.

Aquarius
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:08 am
Location: Woodbridge Suffolk

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Aquarius » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:37 pm

Letter found tucked into a box of bits that I bought from Lowestoft and which T_G kindly collected for me (we had a rendezvous in the rain in the Martlesham Heath Tesco car park and I handed over Flying Cloud's Gayle Heard lugsail which I had collected from Eyemouth).

I pass it on here as evidently its authors want it to be widely known. I know nothing of the background and I don't have any immediate plans to sell the boat that I bought, and have collected from Eyemouth.

Image
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

Aquarius
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:08 am
Location: Woodbridge Suffolk

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Aquarius » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:42 pm

Tony4488 wrote:

The forum might like to know that most of the boats in Lowestoft are evidently going to China.
I find that quite remarkable, as I lived in China for some years, and found that there is precious little sailing of any sort there. The only person I met in the whole of China who shared my enthusiasm for old boats was the resident correspondent for "The Economist", who owns a Bristol Channel pilot cutter. The Hong Kong Maritime Museum is a very good museum indeed but it has no interest in, or space for, racing dinghies.
Last edited by Aquarius on Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

Petej
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:10 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Petej » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:03 pm

That s a shocking letter , at least to me

I would suggest that anyone thinking of selling boats to the authors think again ( and have a little look on Google )
Just check the photos of poor storage and condition of most of the boats long in A T s ownership
Its disappointing they have managed to buy that number of boats I was hoping that a return to private hands would be there salvation

In the building trade its called change the name and do the same

Tony4488
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:28 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Tony4488 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:15 pm

Hmmm.

I believe the letter is a genuine offer to hopefully reunite some of the collection. I would suggest mistakes have been well and truly learned by those responsible for past 'errors of judgment'.

Despite the obvious shock, references to any sales to China would not be mentioned without documentary evidence. It's a litigious world.

Pm soon if you've got any questions as I'm not sure I'm a fan of forums!

Petej
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:10 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Petej » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:54 pm

The prime aim of the Exeter Maritime Museum , ISCA , was to preserve the Worlds ethnic boats before they became extinct . The late David Goddard was just the man for this with good contacts and a love of traveling to far flung places . This seems to me a valid purpose for a museum

There were two or three 20 century dinghies , a couple of Uffa s 14 s that were loaned or donated and of all boats good choices . I remember talking to D G about dinghies and I agree with his view that despite people phoning to offer a much loved Mirror no. 45 or GP 14 no 571 that such a boat has no place in a museum collection and should just be sailed and maintained privately even if they fell to pieces in the end

When ISCA became EISCA and the boats put into storage the magpie collection of dinghies started . Looking at the 14 s for example at least a couple of dozen were taken out of circulation and stuck on tyres in a poly tunnel . This had quite an effect on the classic 14 racing ....... fewer boats ! Less classic 14 racing . The boats themselves were poorly treated and not curated in any coherent manner

So it does not sit well with me that the above letter offers more of the same .

Aquarius
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:08 am
Location: Woodbridge Suffolk

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Aquarius » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:49 pm

I am very much more worried about boats going to China.

China has no tradition of or interest in dinghy sailing outside fielding a national team for the Olympics.

I am rather sure that they will be treated just like Britain's biggest export to China, which is waste paper for recycling. That is to say they will be burned for the metal content.

CORRECTION- update on Sunday 13th August:

I was wrong about this and must apologise. I gather that the Chinese buyers are genuine, and are setting up a museum, but that they may have bought rather more boats than they meant to buy...
Last edited by Aquarius on Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

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trebor
Posts: 956
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:53 pm
Location: West Midlands
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by trebor » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:20 pm

Perhaps not such a worry,
https://www.seabreeze.com.au/News/Saili ... 29190.aspx
scrap metal in a dinghy probably wouldn't buy a McDonalds.
Robert
Minisprint 4230
Tinker Traveller 160
Mirror 61147 Anastasia
http://www.aquabatdinghy.co.uk

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