Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

General chat about boats
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Bootscooter
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Location: Oxfordshire or Lincolnshire (depending on if I can get a weekend off)

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Bootscooter » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:12 pm

Really tempted by K88, but as I'm still paying for the Yoof's Fantastica I've got to think carefully......
I'm also not totally sure how I feel about updating such an original boat - I do have an old (useless on a competitive boat) Latini Carbon Mast.....

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azimuth
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by azimuth » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:33 am

I had similar thoughts about whether it's ok to update a boat like this. But having seen Peter and Martins boats they are both quite original in terms of the hull but with the controls updated to make them practical to sail and race now and able to take a carbon mast (as well as tin and wood) - seems a good compromise and gives the boats purpose now so they are perhaps likely to survive much longer?

My concern with this whole collection is what happens to the boats that don't sell and the administrators start to see it as a liability which costs money to store rather than an asset!
Keith.

Finn K60 'Sfinnx' Fairey
Zenith 74 'Azimuth' (rescued from the undergrowth 20yrs ago)
Zenith 61 'Bali Hai'... A family heirloom...

Aquarius
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Aquarius » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:02 pm

azimuth wrote: My concern with this whole collection is what happens to the boats that don't sell and the administrators start to see it as a liability which costs money to store rather than an asset!
That's very much the point. Presumably it was the cost of storage which led to the administration in the first place. There are quite a number of boats which are never going to be able to go afloat again. These are simply going to be firewood. That will apply to all western dinghies in poor condition and to almost all the "ethnic" vessels.

By the way, any thoughts on Lot 129 - 11ft 6ins Uffa Fox dinghy - "damaged"... this must surely be a "frostbiter", so there are four possibilities - UTILITY / FAY or RUNT / SQUALL. Going by the what seems a very low freeboard, and the reference to "bermuda rig" (but there's no mast!) I would guess RUNT or SQUALL.

http://www.uffafox.com/utility.htm

http://www.uffafox.com/squall.htm

Should not be firewood, anyway...
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

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trebor
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by trebor » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:25 pm

Perhaps we could start a online petition, apparently if you get 100,000 signiatures, government must look at petition.
We want collection taken into public ownership and put into a stable condition.
Robert
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JimC
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by JimC » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:43 pm

trebor wrote:We want collection taken into public ownership and put into a stable condition.
Where's the money coming from to house them? NMM already have all the boats they can manage AIUI.

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trebor
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by trebor » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:06 pm

What is it costing to leave relevant boats (none ethnic) in polytunnel ?
Lottery funding, have you seen some of the things they give money to.
Concentrate on sailing dinghies.
Have an online presence, where people with relevant skill sets can take over a particular boat.
Robert
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sam mason
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by sam mason » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:26 am

Has the RYA shown any interest in this? They do, after all, represent our sport. Surely this is worth their effort.

JimC
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by JimC » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:49 am

trebor wrote:What is it costing to leave relevant boats (none ethnic) in polytunnel ?
They won't be left will they. The ones that will sell will sell, the rest, well, quite possibly they will just get burned. The job of the administrators (apart from, of course, finding the money to pay for their own generous fees, nothing more important than that!) is to get stop spending more money and salvage as much cash as possible to pay the debtors. I imagine they are actually prohibited by law to spend more money on saving the collection than it would cost to destroy it.
sam mason wrote:Has the RYA shown any interest in this? They do, after all, represent our sport. Surely this is worth their effort.
Well, those who don't value vintage boats will ask "Why are the RYA spending money on this instead of...", and I'm not sure there's an answer. A museum is a bloody expensive proposition to run, and if the money isn't coming in - and the sad history of this collection says it won't - then...

Aquarius
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Aquarius » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:52 am

I know I need to strip and revarnish the family Firefly and replace her foredeck in the next few weeks. That being the case, should I even think of taking on the responsibility of restoring to sailing condition and maintaining a real classic, like a Fox Fourteen?

Obviously I should not. So, of course, I hope that "somebody" will!

By the way, in a spirit of enquiry, I put a bid of £550 on the nearly new Whitehall and it was "below reserve" and I see that someone else, almost certainly a CVRDA person, has put a bid of £400 on the early Uffa Fox "IMP" and that was also below reserve. Those are at the moment the only two bids above nominal levels. At this rate, very few lots are going to make their reserves.
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

dronskiuk
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by dronskiuk » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:47 pm

Aquarius wrote:I know I need to strip and revarnish the family Firefly and replace her foredeck in the next few weeks. That being the case, should I even think of taking on the responsibility of restoring to sailing condition and maintaining a real classic, like a Fox Fourteen?

Obviously I should not. So, of course, I hope that "somebody" will!

By the way, in a spirit of enquiry, I put a bid of £550 on the nearly new Whitehall and it was "below reserve" and I see that someone else, almost certainly a CVRDA person, has put a bid of £400 on the early Uffa Fox "IMP" and that was also below reserve. Those are at the moment the only two bids above nominal levels. At this rate, very few lots are going to make their reserves.
Not sure if you received my reply to your pm, it should be in your inbox here.

I am awaiting a response from a friend's father who is a liquidator on the validity of putting a reserve on goods being sold to cover debts - in my experience they are legally bound to get the best price that they can for the creditors and if that is £1 rather than £0 then they, I think, should be obliged to accept it - in my business life I have had to accept a small number of pence in the £ or even been told that there is nothing after the liquidator has been paid.

Petej
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Petej » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:43 pm

I think the reserves are set very high at the moment because they are trying to sell as a collection . Should SK not be able to do so there business terms state reserves can be lowered or I suppose removed and I think this will occur nearer the date of sale

So be careful if you are bidding just to test a reserve ! You are forming a contract to buy

Is there a way of establishing if the dinghies come with rig , rudders etc ?

As mentioned above the priority will be to clear the sites ASAP

These sales are savage and poorly catalogued . I remember going to one where someone bid a few pounds on a 34ft yacht mould , he won , borrowed a ladder to find a shiny new yacht hull laid up inside complete with bulkheads ! He was pleased :)

Another liquidation the boatyard staff were told there jobs were fine for months , only to find when they turned for work the next day the yard was locked and security were on site . This was to stop them taking everything home with them the day before !

Peter

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trebor
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by trebor » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:37 pm

The owner of company I work for purchased whole company buildings, machinery etc for £1, sounds ok, but he had to take on debt, which was almost value of company.
Robert
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Aquarius
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Aquarius » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:45 pm

dronskiuk wrote:
Aquarius wrote:I know I need to strip and revarnish the family Firefly and replace her foredeck in the next few weeks. That being the case, should I even think of taking on the responsibility of restoring to sailing condition and maintaining a real classic, like a Fox Fourteen?

Obviously I should not. So, of course, I hope that "somebody" will!

By the way, in a spirit of enquiry, I put a bid of £550 on the nearly new Whitehall and it was "below reserve" and I see that someone else, almost certainly a CVRDA person, has put a bid of £400 on the early Uffa Fox "IMP" and that was also below reserve. Those are at the moment the only two bids above nominal levels. At this rate, very few lots are going to make their reserves.
Not sure if you received my reply to your pm, it should be in your inbox here.

I am awaiting a response from a friend's father who is a liquidator on the validity of putting a reserve on goods being sold to cover debts - in my experience they are legally bound to get the best price that they can for the creditors and if that is £1 rather than £0 then they, I think, should be obliged to accept it - in my business life I have had to accept a small number of pence in the £ or even been told that there is nothing after the liquidator has been paid.
Yes, I did - thanks - have left a message (I hope!) on your phone.

I assume that's why they say they can drop the reserve if they like. Good advice from Petej about being cautious with bids.

If I "scored" that gorgeous newly built Whitehall (lot 305) for £550 + 15% Buyer's Premium + 20% VAT I'd be delighted!

I have a Japanese friend, Sumie Mizuno, who, with three friends, who were all being made redundant due to the bankruptcy of their employer, put a silly bid for a few thousand yen on the company's rather nice yacht, which came with a debenture on her marina berth, in the winding up auction - that was twenty years ago and when I last heard from her they were still sailing her.
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

Petej
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Petej » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:03 am

The Sale details page has been updated , they are this week trying to match equipment to each of the boats

Peter

ent228
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Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by ent228 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:06 pm

It's a shame that all the boats sold will not be adequately recorded. Nowadays with 3D scanning techniques it would be possible to digitise all of them and then we could all buy our favorite digital representation.

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