Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

General chat about boats
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Escadron
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:38 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Escadron » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:04 pm

Thank you, that would really be extremely helpful. If you could possibly shed any light on which "Imp" is for sale, and the identity of the mystery boat in the upper photograph, that would be great too!

dronskiuk
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:23 pm
Location: Where Broadland meets the sea

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by dronskiuk » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:12 am

Escadron wrote:Thank you, that would really be extremely helpful. If you could possibly shed any light on which "Imp" is for sale, and the identity of the mystery boat in the upper photograph, that would be great too!
Hi - I wonder if you could pm me your email address as the file sizes on here seem to prevent my loading - I have successfully sent pictures to a number of others in this way. Pictures are taken - a few viewing and a couple of expert identifiers in attendance with Kenny fro Sweeney Kincaid this morning. I can't help with Imp, sorry but Jamie Campbell is there and he was instrumental in managing the collection from way back so hopefully will clear this up.

Escadron
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:38 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Escadron » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:40 pm

Have sent pm, thank you.

Aquarius
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:08 am
Location: Woodbridge Suffolk

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Aquarius » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:38 pm

Just to say Thank You to dronskiuk for taking the time to show me round and for taking the excellent photos of ENCORE requested by the rebuilder and custodian of RIPPING YARNS K850.
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

dronskiuk
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:23 pm
Location: Where Broadland meets the sea

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by dronskiuk » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:01 pm

Escadron wrote:Have sent pm, thank you.
Have sent emails with attachments - hope they help!

Aquarius
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:08 am
Location: Woodbridge Suffolk

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Aquarius » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:27 pm

Escadron wrote:Unfortunately I am unable to go to Lowestoft for the viewing tomorrow, and if anyone is able to attend I would be very grateful if they would have a look at Zeus, K500 and Encore, K847. I am also interested in Fleur de Lys, K715 and Buttock Up K780.

There seems to be some confusion over "Imp", possibly because there were two 14"s with the same name. K202 was a Morgan Giles boat built in 1908, and she appears to be the lower of the two boats shown in a photograph on this forum. She is the boat that was in the Bealieu Maritime Museum. K170 was an Uffa Fox boat, built in 1929, and she might possibly be the upper of the two boats shown in the photograph, based on the evidence of the photographs on the NSBR. although the construction of the bows seems wrong for a Fox boat.
K170 is in the sale catalogue as Lot 610, boat in Cardiff, mast in Lowestoft... looks to be in very good nick..

Image

So it seems that both IMPs may be in the sale...
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

Escadron
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:38 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Escadron » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:35 pm

I am totally confused now: suddenly a lot of new boats, some of them of historical importance, are listed for the first time at a very late stage in the auction. The question remains: "Are there going to be enough people interested in these boats to give them all a good home?" I hope that someone can reassure me..

Aquarius
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:08 am
Location: Woodbridge Suffolk

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Aquarius » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:09 pm

Escadron wrote:I am totally confused now: suddenly a lot of new boats, some of them of historical importance, are listed for the first time at a very late stage in the auction. The question remains: "Are there going to be enough people interested in these boats to give them all a good home?" I hope that someone can reassure me..
Just so...

I see the two boats that I pictured earlier have now popped up in the catalogue. So both "IMP"s are in the auction.

However the still un-named Morgan Giles-ish (?) boat with the green bilges is in the catalogue as K110 but the NSBR shows "Merhonour", also in the sale as K110...

I think that there is no prospect of these boats that have been catalogued during today making their reserves* so they will become "closed unsold lots". There is a page of the auctioneers' website devoted to such, here:

https://www.sellmylot.com/Auctions

* I see that someone has put a serious bid of £800 on "Corona" K374 and it still didn't reach the reserve.
Last edited by Aquarius on Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

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neil
Site Admin
Posts: 1609
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:33 pm
Location: Plymouth

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by neil » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:55 pm

Looks a right mess. Several lots of sails, masts rudders. Boats in one location, rigs in another.

Gi
IC: K26
Harrier +: 2

Chrisrjwood
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:33 pm
Location: Suffolk

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Chrisrjwood » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:30 pm

Hi All,
I have opened the bidding on I14's K500 Zeus and K347 Alarm.

I am hoping to save these boats from a sorry end and I have the time and facilities to restore them.

If anyone else will be bidding on them let me know and I wont bid against you, just want to make sure that they don't end up in the wrong hands :cry: :cry:

Best Regards to all,

Chris
Chrisrjwood
Uffa Fox I14 K500 Zeus
Fairey I14 Maelstrom K680
Jollyboat J325 Serendipity
Rouse I14 'Brown Trousers' K1094
Kirby 7 I14 Last Chance K1120
Penultimate I14 K1337
Pegasus 187 'Fan'
Uffa Fox I14 Nymph K524 (under restoration)

Aquarius
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:08 am
Location: Woodbridge Suffolk

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Aquarius » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:45 pm

Chrisrjwood wrote:Hi All,
I have opened the bidding on I14's K500 Zeus and K347 Alarm.

I am hoping to save these boats from a sorry end and I have the time and facilities to restore them.

If anyone else will be bidding on them let me know and I wont bid against you, just want to make sure that they don't end up in the wrong hands :cry: :cry:

Best Regards to all,

Chris
Go for it! ZEUS looked to be in particularly good nick.

fwiw I am interested in Lot 669 described as K110 but will step out if someone has a good home for her.

Incidentally Lot 627 the little "decimal three rater" FLYING CLOUD ought to be looked after by someone in the CVRDA as she might be the oldest dinghy of all.

Someone has put a bid on her - if the someone is a CVRDA person, can I ask that they make themselves known to me? if not I will bid as she is of real historic interest - the "decimal threes" were really the first racing dinghies - the rating was under the Length and Sail Area Rule -

(LWL x Sail Area )
( 6,000 ) ............... x 0.3 = rating

at 0.3 you come out with about a 13ft waterline and a 140 sq ft rig. OR a 14ft waterline and a 125 sq ft rig...

The same rule produced, with a different multiplier, Half raters, One raters, Thames A Raters, Twenty Raters, Forty Raters and at the big end the Royal racing cutter "Britannia". The excellent class history of the International Fourteens covers this - the Norfolk and Conference dinghies were a move away from the Length and Sail Area Rule.
Last edited by Aquarius on Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

chris
Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: somerset

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by chris » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:25 pm

Went to Cardiff this morning so may be able to answer questions or send a photo.
Be aware that some are in the process of restoration, for instance Daring K 201 lot 503 is having a new bottom and inner skin has been done but there are no planks on the outer parts under the waterline. It will be a challenge to get the shape of the hull correct there too. Very much work-in-progress.
wob.jpg

chris
Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: somerset

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by chris » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:37 pm


Aquarius
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:08 am
Location: Woodbridge Suffolk

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by Aquarius » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:20 pm

Thanks. Re-planking a Fox 14 is not my idea of fun.

Tomorrow we shall know - I see a lot of reserves have been reduced. Good luck with your bids.
CVRDA eligible:
1962(?) Firefly F3163 "Aquarius"
1946 International Fourteen K478 "Galatea"
Not CVRDA eligible:
1991(?) Nethercot IC K229, "Ogaf the Unbearable"
Squib. possibly number 251, "Squirt"

T_G
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:47 pm

Re: Roll up, roll up, buy an entire museum collection

Post by T_G » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:29 am

Aquarius wrote:Incidentally Lot 627 the little "decimal three rater" FLYING CLOUD ought to be looked after by someone in the CVRDA as she might be the oldest dinghy of all.

Someone has put a bid on her - if the someone is a CVRDA person, can I ask that they make themselves known to me? if not I will bid as she is of real historic interest - the "decimal threes" were really the first racing dinghies - the rating was under the Length and Sail Area
Lot 627 Flying Cloud

Hi I would have replied earlier but I've been I've only just had my account activated, as I am part of a group that have interest in a few of the Lowestoft items particularly the 1/3 rater. It seems likely to be quite a bit younger than listed and much of the boat is from it's 1980's rebuild which would have been a pragmatic exercise by local accounts.

We intend to bid on this lot and will be going to Lowestoft shortly after the auction closes, although smack and barge racing is currently filling the schedule. The issue of it's probable sails in Eyemouth has not been resolved but ideas are being floated.

We could collect items from Lowestoft for other people if you are also suffering from a split lot, as we will probably take the rowing gig trailer, and be able to store them in the boatyard in Maldon for a while or arrange forwarding as required.

The boat could be assessed in mid September as we will have room in the boatshed then, and if favourable an early 2018 light restoration could take place. We would be very happy to expand our area from the east coast classic events, and if the CVRDA has events that fit would be delighted to visit them with Flying Cloud. If members have an interest in this boat then we would be only to happy to correspond with them over it's future if we are able to rescue her.

Back to the boat, it's history and that of it's designer & builder.

It does not have it's original rig but a 1980's replacement downsized to suit conditions at Brightlingsea on the Colne / Blackwater and based on other raters known to have been made by Harry Smith. It underwent restoration by John Leather around 1982 - at that time it was in a sorry state, he was not a boat builder as listed by NSBR but a qualified Naval Architect and at the time was Technical Secretary for the Royal Institute of Naval Architects and formerly Senior Surveyor for Lloyds Register livng at Fingringhoe between Maldon and West Mersea. His name will be familiar to readers of Classic Boat as a regular contributor as his interest and knowledge of east coast working boats and early designers was extensive. His own designs both for building and as technical studies plus his books really show his interest lay in east coast boats rather than upper Thames boats and local suggestion / supposition is that this might be a Harry Smith boat made in Burnham.

A bit of information on Theo & Harry Smith.
Surprisingly both the listing and NSBR entry contain errors. The boat is categorised as be a 'rater' so can be assumed to be post 1887 and the introduction of that rule, additionally in the 1881 census Theo Smith was employed in his father's business as a "plumber's clerk", and his brother Harry as "plumber's assistant". They switched to boat building initially producing canoe yawls and 26+ boats were built there jointly and separately over 10 or so years leading up their falling out and move (Theo to the south coast and Harry to Burnham on Crouch followed by his four other brothers). [Strike]We can't find a record of any raters being produced in Oxford by either brother, but it is a possibility[/Strike].

Harry moved to The Burnham Yachtbuilding Company 1895 > 1939 initially as manager and post-war as proprietor where under the guidance of Gilbert Laws it is known he designed several raters and the Royal Corinthian One Design. His archive of plans, designs invoices etc. was saved and is at the West Mersea museum; Theo's was not maybe due to his on/off interest in boat building & design (and planes, ballcocks and folding dinghies) and his moves to Ashlett Mill, Fawley then Yarmouth IoW.
Last edited by T_G on Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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