Handicap review

[Rupert]

Following a request by Pat on a different thread, it is time to have a quick review of the handicaps we have been using. This isn't a witch hunt, or a method of making sure I win, it is a way of trying to make racing a happy event for everyone - nobody likes to sail their socks off only to find that the boat they were sailing was expected to go impossibly fast. SO...Which boats do people feel need a helping hand, and which need pegging back a little. Which newfangled inventions need penalizing, and which dinghy fittings from the dark ages need a boost. An outline of what we do now can be found on the "boats" section of the main site.
I'll start off with the Finn, which has been sailing off 91 for the classics (as per 1965 handicaps) and 90 for the Olds. They were (and still sometimes are) sailed by Olympic standard helms, and this appears to have made it somewhat difficult for the mere mortals (if this description can be used for men of such stature...) to perform as expected at cvrda events. I therefore propose we up each handicap by 1 point, and see how we go.

Remember, we are not working out personal handicaps here!

And we need input!

[PeterV]

And what about different rigs. An old Finn could sail with a wooden mast, an alloy one or a carbon one. I would suggest that if it's sailing with a carbon/kevlar rig it will have a lower handicap than a Needlespar/Dacron. I was wondering about getting the wooden mast out and sailing with the original Elvestrom sail, that should give everyone else a head start.

[jpa_wfsc]

Whats this about "pegging back a bit" ???

john./

Pegasus !! 194 !!

- - but I agree with the principle of setting handicaps that lead to happy crews.

[Nigel]

Hi all,

having dug out my handicap spreadsheet (see the "to stain..." thread) i noticed that Finns today seem relatively slower than they used to be a few years ago. Today's new money handicap equates to about 94 in old money. Are they getting slower or is everyone else getting faster?

Nigel

[keithr]

For what its worth the finns didnt seem to sail to their handicap at Clywedog and with the wind strength and relative crew weights aboard ( no dig intended) they should have been better placed.

Keith

[JimC]

An interesting exercise when considering handicaps is to rework a few sets of results. Even in a 2 digit system like the CVRDAs you'd be suprised how little difference the odd point here and there makes...

[Brookesy]

I must agree with Peter, the overriding factor which will effect the Finn performance is the rig.Over the years the measurement tolerences have been played to the limit by various builders and in some conditions some hulls will perform better than others.Currently,at the highest level, the hull to have is either a post 2002 Devoti or a PATA B4.Their advantage is due to the fairness of the hull and the flexibility of their bow area,which when used in conjunction with a carbon mast and mylar type composite sail is very effective.All this is far removed from the type of boats we are likely to see at CVRDA events, but the diference in performance between rigs is huge.I would say that the advantage gained by alloy over wood in masts, is similar to the advantage gained by carbon over alloy, and it is perhaps here where the handicap should be adjusted.I do not believe the advantage gained by 'plastic' sails to be so great, in fact more than one Finn sailmaker is now offering dacron/polyester sails as an option for light to medium conditions.
I would think that the easiest solution would be to have three numbers regardless of boat age, but for mast type, wood, alloy or carbon, as for the actual numbers well thats another matter.
Now where can I borrow a nice new Devoti to go with this Collar mast for Baltic Wharfe?

[neil]

There are 2 PYs for the Finn. One for the old boats (over 25 years old) and classic (those that meet the CVRDA classic requirements). There is no vintage Finn PY.

So the baseline boat will be from 1965, and as such will be a Fairey or Pearson or similar with an alloy rig and soft sail.

If one were to sail with a wooden mast and/or cotton sail then a favourable adjustment could be made by Rupert (or other PY CVRDA guru), and if I was to put my carbon rig / North film sail on my Fairey I would have my PY penalised (probably severely).

I thinks it's easier to keep the two PYs (old @91 and classic @ 92) and then look at any changes in rig on a boat by boat basis.

[Rupert]

I think Neil has got that one sorted. Now, any other classes feel they need a change? Better now than at the 5 minute gun! Ones I feel should be up for debate (won't say which way!) Clinker N12's, 25-30 year old Merlins, Vintage and classic 14's, Dolphin, Firefly.

[chris]

Yes, I think the whole point of the CVRDA handicap system is that we level the playing feild for early versions of boats and rig/sails otherwise we go into the loop of encouraging updatedness at the expense of traditional/original boats.
Re Merlins
the 25-30 age group is probably the tricky area. If you look through the merlin yearbooks at the winners of main events it's quite clear when Holt boats gave way to Proctor designs then in turn Morrison etc took over and so on. As has been done before at Roadford etc. The design combined with age consideration gives a guide for a handicap. What would be interesting is to encourage some of the designs that were tried and failed or were very specific in their success. Mostly these boats will have been rejected and scrapped but I think in a historical context they show an interesting perspective of design-thought of the day.

[Ed]

Rupert,

I so agree....and I have been, along with many many other things been meaning to call you to discuss.

I certainly agree that Finns should go up a bit, although I don't think one is quite enough and would suggest 2 points and then review.

I think it is certainly worthwhile asking what opinions membership have.....but also think that we should take the time to look at results and review them in a slightly more dispassionate way.

cheers

eib