Brooksey,
just found this add - in the Netherlands!!
GB 346 is for sale. Built in 1984 by Bob hoare, it was a trials boat in the Olympics in 1985. It has a carbon hull and wood decks with spars from Needlespar.
Completely renovated in 2003 this boat was immediately competitive with the original sails (Musto and Dan). Imagine what this boat could do with a new set of Meyers or banks!
Full specification can be sent to any interested party, (including more pictures) and I price this to sell to someone who wants to keep this boat for another 20 years.
Price 7,500 Euro EX works UK complete with covers and road trolley.
Owner will help with delivery to Zeebruge if it helps.
That must be a sister ship to yours!!!
D
Vintage Yachting games.
Re: Vintage Yachting games.
David H
Re: Vintage Yachting games.
Coincidence or what? Just browsing through a Merlin mag from 1980 and found an article on Lawrie Smart which mentions that he finished Pat Blake's FD from a Bob Hoare built hull!!
Re: Vintage Yachting games.
There was certainly some difference in hull shape on the FD's although I think it became less of a performance difference as time went on. Everything else measured on RP's boat, it was just the aft template section although I cant remember exactly what now. It was I think a little narrow on the turn of the bilge and so to far from the template, hence the need for filler.
I will talk to Keith again and get his recollection on hull shapes as he certainly felt that shape did make a difference and some early hulls would "not Go". By the time of RP's last boat I think the stiffness factor was the main improvement to be able to carry the rig loadings etc. John Best was the chief measurer for the VYG and obviously a long standing FD man. I will try to get him to give us some thoughts. Also it would be interesting to see what has happened to the class measurement form records. They were held by the class chief measurer Cle Jeltes in Holland. He is I believe not very well but his record keeping was immaculate.
I suspect that any of the later boats if stiff enough would carry the modern raking rig and be competitive to a fairly high level. The tolerance is fairly small (between 6 and 12.5mm) so the hull shave variation will nove be vast but enough to give a good or bad tweak. Certainly the curing og hulls is something that is never looked at in enough detail on a day to day basis and a properly cured hull makes an enormous difference.
The easy answer to the One Design question is of course Jack Holt's comment: It stops being a One Design as soon as you build the second boat! These days we only have One Design and Development, but of course we used to have Restricted in the middle. It is a subjective viewpoint in most cases. If tolerances a fairly tight then in most cases the boats conform to the "all perform about the same" principle. There are often many rules to control little things but very rarely do the minutiae actual affect the performance. Master plugs and SMOD's are no certainty of the boats being remotely the same however.
Now 6X, I think that's the light lunchtime drink you have is it not? As Pat said try an Adnams although in fairness the Regatta, whilst a lovely pint is still a light weight. It was Abbott Ale with barley wine that did for the Aussies(lightweights!) but I think we would recommend a full Adnams Broadside to start and maybe some Tally Ho if you are here at the right time. This is normally only available in the winter when only the true Viking locals are left. It gets embarrassing having to keep propping the visitors up outside for fresh air. Takes up to much of our drinking time
I will talk to Keith again and get his recollection on hull shapes as he certainly felt that shape did make a difference and some early hulls would "not Go". By the time of RP's last boat I think the stiffness factor was the main improvement to be able to carry the rig loadings etc. John Best was the chief measurer for the VYG and obviously a long standing FD man. I will try to get him to give us some thoughts. Also it would be interesting to see what has happened to the class measurement form records. They were held by the class chief measurer Cle Jeltes in Holland. He is I believe not very well but his record keeping was immaculate.
I suspect that any of the later boats if stiff enough would carry the modern raking rig and be competitive to a fairly high level. The tolerance is fairly small (between 6 and 12.5mm) so the hull shave variation will nove be vast but enough to give a good or bad tweak. Certainly the curing og hulls is something that is never looked at in enough detail on a day to day basis and a properly cured hull makes an enormous difference.
The easy answer to the One Design question is of course Jack Holt's comment: It stops being a One Design as soon as you build the second boat! These days we only have One Design and Development, but of course we used to have Restricted in the middle. It is a subjective viewpoint in most cases. If tolerances a fairly tight then in most cases the boats conform to the "all perform about the same" principle. There are often many rules to control little things but very rarely do the minutiae actual affect the performance. Master plugs and SMOD's are no certainty of the boats being remotely the same however.
Now 6X, I think that's the light lunchtime drink you have is it not? As Pat said try an Adnams although in fairness the Regatta, whilst a lovely pint is still a light weight. It was Abbott Ale with barley wine that did for the Aussies(lightweights!) but I think we would recommend a full Adnams Broadside to start and maybe some Tally Ho if you are here at the right time. This is normally only available in the winter when only the true Viking locals are left. It gets embarrassing having to keep propping the visitors up outside for fresh air. Takes up to much of our drinking time
Re: Vintage Yachting games.
This history is getting very interesting, I was not aware of the Lawrie Smart connection to 365.
Regards the use of tolerences, I was amazed at the diference in hull shapes between my hulls which we dicovered when loading 365 onto the cradles that had been moulded for the trailer from 350.The Bob Hoare hull is what can only be described as skinnier, which is confirmed when comparing the measurement certificates.
The documentation relating to certificates is in existance, although he may not thank me for publishing it, but Tony Lyall the class registrar/secretary keeps photocopies of all certificates as boats are registered.
It is my intention to see how 350 will fare against the modern fleet next year as I am hoping to be able to do the FD Travellors series, but I need the full winter to get myself in gear, never mind the boat.
Sadly David, again the boat listed on the Dutch site is again one of those lost to the Broads. The boat shown on the UK site although I do not know its history , to me looks interesting but I know nothing of the builder Booth.
Now regarding the beer, again I have to agree that unless you are drinking it in Devizes the product is not as it was. The tipple of choice for Roadford these days is Doombar from Sharps Brewery of Rock, a true Cornish Cask Ale that brings a whole new meaning to the idea of the Cornish Wrecker.
Regards the use of tolerences, I was amazed at the diference in hull shapes between my hulls which we dicovered when loading 365 onto the cradles that had been moulded for the trailer from 350.The Bob Hoare hull is what can only be described as skinnier, which is confirmed when comparing the measurement certificates.
The documentation relating to certificates is in existance, although he may not thank me for publishing it, but Tony Lyall the class registrar/secretary keeps photocopies of all certificates as boats are registered.
It is my intention to see how 350 will fare against the modern fleet next year as I am hoping to be able to do the FD Travellors series, but I need the full winter to get myself in gear, never mind the boat.
Sadly David, again the boat listed on the Dutch site is again one of those lost to the Broads. The boat shown on the UK site although I do not know its history , to me looks interesting but I know nothing of the builder Booth.
Now regarding the beer, again I have to agree that unless you are drinking it in Devizes the product is not as it was. The tipple of choice for Roadford these days is Doombar from Sharps Brewery of Rock, a true Cornish Cask Ale that brings a whole new meaning to the idea of the Cornish Wrecker.
GBR74 ex custodian of
GBR384 Mickey Finnale (Taylor,wood)
GBR455 Rubber Duck (Taylor, grp)
FD GBR350 Supercalifragalisticexpialidocious
GBR384 Mickey Finnale (Taylor,wood)
GBR455 Rubber Duck (Taylor, grp)
FD GBR350 Supercalifragalisticexpialidocious
Re: Vintage Yachting games.
Brooksey,
'when is a one design not a one design'........................
I've been busy working on the bokk telling the history of the Contender. Few people know that the 'parentage' of this boat was a boxy, flat bottom scow that Bob Miller (Ben Lexen) drew up but, to quote the great man, "it sucked in the light stuff". So Bob went back to the drawing board and drew another set of hull lines, this time based around his great sailing love, the FD! Keith Paul, who has owned both Contenders and FDs at the same time, reckons that if you turn the hulls over and then stand back a bit - they are so very close to being one and the same.
Anyway - the Contender is a strict one design and was run as much until K388 came along. Builder Steve Daniels knew that as this was a 'home build' he could get away with exploiting the build tolerances in a way that a professional builder couldn't. Rondars always had their mould set to 'nominal' - straight down the middle of the tolerance line. +/- 12mm can equate to almost an inch and this is what Steve did - the hull was narrower yet flatter with a more pronounced U shape in the bows.
K388 revolutionised the Contender hull shape and now nearly all the boats are built to this shape. Should the IYRU have acted way back...maybe, BUT... they didn't and the rest is history.
Ditto Finns - with the Devotti, Fireballs.... 470s, 505s (water rat), all of the top INternational Classes now have a 'preferred' hull shape, that offers a significant speed advantage, yet is still a 'one design'. Yeah, right!
Clearly the FDs went the same way.... but there is another 'BUT'.
When at Rondar, Dave Pitman knew of the modded hull shape but took this view. "When you're good enough to get around a course with no mistakes, then you can start worrying about the +/- 12mm".
He's right: A bum tack, a fluffed spinnaker gybe, a poor reading of the beat can make a huge difference when compared to that of the hull shape. I'd suggest that if the weight is correct and the hull is still stiff, (which it should be in the carbon/nomex hulls) then good gear and practiced sailing is of far greater importance.
Still following a number of research lines on this..... so more to follow!
D
'when is a one design not a one design'........................
I've been busy working on the bokk telling the history of the Contender. Few people know that the 'parentage' of this boat was a boxy, flat bottom scow that Bob Miller (Ben Lexen) drew up but, to quote the great man, "it sucked in the light stuff". So Bob went back to the drawing board and drew another set of hull lines, this time based around his great sailing love, the FD! Keith Paul, who has owned both Contenders and FDs at the same time, reckons that if you turn the hulls over and then stand back a bit - they are so very close to being one and the same.
Anyway - the Contender is a strict one design and was run as much until K388 came along. Builder Steve Daniels knew that as this was a 'home build' he could get away with exploiting the build tolerances in a way that a professional builder couldn't. Rondars always had their mould set to 'nominal' - straight down the middle of the tolerance line. +/- 12mm can equate to almost an inch and this is what Steve did - the hull was narrower yet flatter with a more pronounced U shape in the bows.
K388 revolutionised the Contender hull shape and now nearly all the boats are built to this shape. Should the IYRU have acted way back...maybe, BUT... they didn't and the rest is history.
Ditto Finns - with the Devotti, Fireballs.... 470s, 505s (water rat), all of the top INternational Classes now have a 'preferred' hull shape, that offers a significant speed advantage, yet is still a 'one design'. Yeah, right!
Clearly the FDs went the same way.... but there is another 'BUT'.
When at Rondar, Dave Pitman knew of the modded hull shape but took this view. "When you're good enough to get around a course with no mistakes, then you can start worrying about the +/- 12mm".
He's right: A bum tack, a fluffed spinnaker gybe, a poor reading of the beat can make a huge difference when compared to that of the hull shape. I'd suggest that if the weight is correct and the hull is still stiff, (which it should be in the carbon/nomex hulls) then good gear and practiced sailing is of far greater importance.
Still following a number of research lines on this..... so more to follow!
D
David H