Holt Tideway race

Chat about CVRDA events
MJGifford
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by MJGifford » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:28 pm

Ideally a PN from either the old or new system. I appreciate that handicaps are based on venue, weather, etc... The problem and beauty of one-off handicap races (Bloody Mary, etc...) is that they will inevitably favour some classes. On the plus side, going under the bridges into town you can expect pretty much every condition under the sun.

Any help is appreciated.

Rupert
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by Rupert » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:29 pm

A literal translation of the old 112 handicap for the vagabond would give you a modern handicap of 1271. From what I have seen, if you have more modern Solos, Ents etc out, it will get thrashed on that. 1300 is probably going to give it a better race, and not too far out compared to the Mirror, maybe!
Rupert

Pat
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by Pat » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:35 pm

Hi M.J.

The Vagabond was was given 112 at our events so I'd go for somewhere around 1300.

Ed's Holt Canoe I'd probably stick on about the same as the old Hornets - put all the plankers together! They should get a serious advantage over any more modern Hornets with trapeze. We give +3 (about 34 points) difference

Also for cvrda we add 2 (about 23 in modern terms) for a wooden mast and 4 (about 45) for cotton sails and subtract 2 (23ish) for a carbon mast and 4 (45ish) for mylar sails. this gives the older, unmodernised boats a fairer chance, especially with the Merlin Rockets where two boats the same age can be very different - one being original wooden mast and another all carbonised and mylar sails. Alloy and dacron is regarded as standard. Otherwise the Merlin age related handicaps are a good start - see their website.

For any other numbers there is a handicap list on the main cvrda website (http://www.cvrda.org), events menu, handicap list.

Good luck - I hope your numbers work well

Pat (and Sandy - Lark 2419)
(Half Cut and What a Lark Removals Ltd)

Garry R
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by Garry R » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:05 pm

And Merlin 111 with wooden mast and cotton sails, no spinnaker and lead tipped centreboard ...........!!!! Hope to see a few of you there. NOT towing with the Austin Seven (was designed by Herbert Austin and Stanley Edge!!)

roger
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by roger » Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:00 pm

sadly I dont think there will be any planker hornets there. Shoestring is still broken so I have jumped ship and will be sailing Mervyns merlin Keto.
There will however be a nice shiny state of the art Hornet there. Winner of the Wraysbury Concourse "Full potential juice"
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353

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Ed
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by Ed » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:07 am

I am struggling to know what to suggest for the IC in new handicap terms.....

It was this difficulty that lead us to establishing and using our own 1965 based system for CVRDA racing.

I think that Conquest has been racing on around the high 80s in our system and finds it hard to compete at that anyway. I think you really need to look at the other classic and vintage boats and see where she fits in.

As I said before, my experience (from Wraysbury and other events) has been that unless there are long bits of easy sailing, which lets face it you are not going to get on the Tideway, I would think that Conquest will find it hard to effectively sail in these conditions faster than the early Merlins. Personally, I would put her just a couple of points lower than those so, she has to beat them on the water and put a little time between her and them to win, but don't do it too much or she will never catch up.

I would reckon it is best to try and keep the old boats together and give them a good race between themselves.

Good luck with the handicapping and have a great fun race.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
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JimC
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by JimC » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:31 pm

Ed wrote:I am struggling to know what to suggest for the IC in new handicap terms.....
When I sailed my IC at the Thames SC event a couple of years ago in particularly difficult conditions I couldn't keep up with a National 12...

roger
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by roger » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:34 pm

looks like its going to be very light easterly.
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353

Pat
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by Pat » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:38 pm

From my limited Tideway experience I'd say you'll be OK on the downwind leg but struggle on the tacking leg as it's a lot of short tacks zig-zagging across the river.
(Half Cut and What a Lark Removals Ltd)

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Ed
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by Ed » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:41 pm

in particularly difficult conditions I couldn't keep up with a National 12...
hah....

me neither!


eib
Ed Bremner
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Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
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neil
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by neil » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:17 pm

I'm just about to leave work for the day, I'd like to move the last couple of posts to a different part of the forum as this issue needs to be away from the Holt Event as I'm sure it will get more discussion . I'll get round to moving it later unless one of the other Mods gets to it first.
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chris
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by chris » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:39 pm

David : Did you get my email about getting hold of an anchor? I don't have have a spare one for you.
Chris

JimC
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by JimC » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:01 pm

chris wrote:David : Did you get my email about getting hold of an anchor? I don't have have a spare one for you.
Chris
I've got a couple in my garage in Epsom if anyone is passing, or I'm working in Kingstom tomorrow and someone could grab one from there.

davidh
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by davidh » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:23 pm

chris...

no anchor as yet - jim.... i'd love to grab one but am at southampton till sunday am early. - i hope to find one tomorrow.

Neil - worry not! I'll talk to the organisers and if it looks as if the subject will run further will start a new string up specific to the topic.

d
David H

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neil
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Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by neil » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:28 pm

New classic handicap thread now at: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4488&start=0
IC: K26
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