Holt Tideway race

Chat about CVRDA events
roger
Posts: 3026
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:08 pm
Location: Frome Somerset UK

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by roger » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:24 am

I still have a few Holt centennial T shirts if anyone wants one I can bring them with me.
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353

davidh
Posts: 3163
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by davidh » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:10 pm

Chris....anchor all sourced!

Looking forward to tomorrow

D
David H

roger
Posts: 3026
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:08 pm
Location: Frome Somerset UK

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by roger » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:03 pm

Very enjyable day on the Thames could have done with a bit more puff but still a good day

Thank you Ranelagh.
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353

Vagabond61
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:35 pm
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by Vagabond61 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:51 pm

Great afternoon on the Thames even though not much wind.
Poor vagabond is staying the night in a recovery compound on the m62!! 15 miles from home and yet another puncture, but this time the axle also snapped. Not good at 70mph!!! Luckily I keep buying boats from eBay so have a spare trailer so will collect her in the morning and assess any damage to the boat.

Any ideas if my insurance will cover it or will it be classed as "wear and tear"? My Insurance is with Noble Marine. If anyone has had any dealings with them it would be good to hear.
Nick

Jack Holt Vagabond 61 (FOR SALE)
Merlin Rocket 2919 Hornblower (FOR SALE)
OK 1745 (FOR SALE)
Contender (Sail Number Unknown??)

Bill-Conner
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:08 pm

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by Bill-Conner » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:35 am

Noble Marine are a very noble and helpful broker, however if there is a suggestion about the condition pre accident you may have a problem with any claim.
Those who buy cheap old kit cannot expect new for old, only to be in the position they were in before the incident.
Wish you luck.

davidh
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by davidh » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:22 pm

What an epic day!

Firstly, a huge thank you to Ranelagh for hosting what has to be one of the great 'one off' events; forget the Bloody Mary or Tiger Trophy, if they run the Tideway again get yourself a boat and sail (or in the case of yesterday, drift) up and down the Thames! It's often said that these specialist events are dominated by local knowledge and it is true that the event yesterday was won by a Solo sailor who has Thames river water running in his veins - yet in second place was Nick Smith, ably crewed by his daughter, all the way from Portishead (come to think of it Portishead and the Thames have lots in common) sailing in a Miracle. Congrats to Nick, who is well known to the CVRDA as the builder and sailor of Marauder 1005 - another of the sailing 'class acts' that have recently been seen at a CVRDA event.


Had yesterday been at the coast I doubt if anyone would have even bothered to take their booat covers off - as it was there was a fiesta fun day atmosphere about the issues of starting on the right side of the line when the current was sweeping the boats down towards the first of the bridges that had to be negotiated. Not a problem for the solo, nor the Enterprises.....nor our good friend in vagabond 61.....but in a classic merlin with a towering wooden mast, this was a time for some buttock clenching moments. Want to know wwhy classic merlins have big rolled side decks????? it helps the nerves immeasureably if you can lay the boat half on it's side to reduce mast height!

For the rest of it, there will soon be an article/s about the relative joys of sailing a boat as iconic as Gently. The short answer is, well, thanks be for development! In the last few generations, we've all gotten bigger (okay, some of us bigger and bigger but that's another issue) but one cannot but sense the feeling of cramped discomfort. Nor was this just an issue for my bulk - as Susan, though slender, was effectively 'too tall' for the front of the boat. Now you don't normally get much discussion about the issues of 'reading' mylar sails on the CVRDA website, but if anyone reading this knows the problem, then reading a 60+ year old set of cotton sails is considerably worse than their ultra modern equivalent.

On a personal note, I had a wonderful day despite an early moment of pure stupidity that bordered on farce. ( with the tide running strong, I though I had this brill idea for starting! But believe me, an old fashioned (and very deep) weighted centreboard will drop fully down with ease and then hold you firmly on the 'putty' whilst you sit there, trim sails and wonder why you're not making any progress. Still, we had a great time chasing Dawn and gary in Gannet and if the truth be told, I was happier sailing along on my own bit of the Thames as I really was sailing Gently gently.

But a huge thank you to Chris and Mervyn for trusting me with their boat, to Ranelagh for an amazingly generous, friendly welcome and well run event and a special word of thanks to crew Susan, who's introduction to dinghy sailing was when we both hopped aboard with 10 seconds to go to the one minute gun!

In a lifetime of dinghy sailing, I thought i'd pretty much 'done it all' and have certainly enjoyed the glitz that comes with winning major events. But sat here today I cannot think of anything that gave me the intense feeling of fun - and satisfaction, despite sailing along at times 'two bridges' behind the rest of the fleet.

Dougal
PS: I will be posting a comment (in very positive terms) on the new thread Neil set up regarding handicaps. The words from Chris Barlow, expressed consistenly over a number of seasons, on the need to address the gulf (for there is no other word to describe it) that exists between cotton and modern sails in terms of performance have taken on a new relevance for me.
David H

MJGifford
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:53 pm

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by MJGifford » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:44 pm

Dear All,

It is really nice to see these positive comments. We are allowed to race up to 100 boats downriver (providing we can source sufficient rescue cover) and on days like yesterday there is very little to beat a gentle meander along the Thames. What makes it worthwhile organising though is the positive remarks that everybody gave when they got back ashore after what was a truly marathon sail (3 1/2 hours for some!).

See you all next time.

M.J. (on behalf of Ranelagh SC)

davidh
Posts: 3163
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by davidh » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:52 pm

MJ..... I didn't get a chance to say congratulations on a brilliant 'win' but I'll add them now.

Elsewhere on this forum is a thread on classic PYs and I will be commentating there. Please do not think that this is in any way a critique of how RSC organised the Tideway - but is instead a reflection that as 'classic' events grow in desireability and stature (even though the race yesterday was not, per se, a classic event you had enough classic entries to put it firmly into that league) that the need for a unified system of classic PYs will continue to grow.

The big question will be on how to get this done..........but to me, if the 'classic scene' is to build on the success of 2012 - Chichester, Wraysbury and Ranelagh, Bosham and Bough Beech to name but a few, having an authoritive and 'meaningful' pull down list of PYs would make the life of those organising events all the easier!

regards

D
David H

davidh
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by davidh » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:59 pm

Oops - forgot!

Chris/Louis, MJ, Roger, dawn/Toby, vagabond 61, Nick (Price) - if any of you have a 'good shot' that you're happy for me to use, please send them to me!

regards

D
David H

chris
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Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: somerset

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by chris » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:43 pm

Many thanks to Ranelagh for organising a great event. Sailing down the Thames is a lovely and rare experience, great fun. Thanks to all those who helped to make it a great day. Chichester SC, Wrasybury Lake SC and Ranelagh have certainly made Holt's centenary a year to remember. Three quite different events run by clubs that Holt was particularly associated with.

David, Glad you enjoyed the experience- I look forward to reading more.
Here's one pic but we are hoping to upload more on the web .(if we can work the technology)
042small.JPG
(20.06 KiB) Not downloaded yet

chris
Posts: 2445
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Location: somerset

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by chris » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:52 pm

Here is the link to Tideway photos http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/1493186391

MJGifford
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:53 pm

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by MJGifford » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:06 pm

Dear David,

I am happy to help with the handicapping and have views on how this can be done based on my experience at Ranelagh. I do think that there are a number of issues that need to be considered. These are my opinions and to an extent reflect the policies of RSC (I am Vice-Commodore for sailing and therefore responsible for handicapping) -

1. Handicaps should be changed based on the venue if appropriate.
2. Handicaps should not be changed on day by day weather conditions.
3. Handicaps should not be based on the quality of the sailors (personal handicaps are a completely separate issue but if we are just talking about boats then poor sailors
4. Handicaps should not be based on the level of maintenance/ general state of the boats but can give allowance for classic features such as mast construction, sail cloth, etc....
5. Where level rating is not too unreasonable it should be used as it makes for more entertaining racing.

I would like to point out that the Ranelagh event was not billed as a classic event and my handicapping was simply done to try and level the playing field for the sailors. We had four different classes in the top 4 which is normally a good sign that it has been done in a reasonable way, the only problem I had was that it is not great for the person doing the handicapping to win :( . It should also be noted that the Solo, Enterprise and Miracle have pretty similar performance curves relative to wind strength (i.e. they plane at similar stages, all roll tack fairly well and are similarly manageable in light and heavy airs).

More detailed discussion might be better offline with output being posted for comment.

Kind regards,
M.J.

davidh
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by davidh » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:21 pm

MJ - my comments were mainly on the basis of how well the event had been handicaped - I thought that you did a superb job and as you pointed out, really got it as close to right as it was possible to be (given the spread of boats and conditions)

What I was hoping was that we could drawn on your experiences, plus those of Bosham and the core cvrda events to better understand how to address the 'anomolies' - cotton sails and boats in 'original' condition v not dissimilar boats equipped on a more state of the art basis.

If I'd been the handicapper, i'd be feeling pretty damn pleased with the results - all the way down through the fleet.

yet another reason to champion RSC and the event....which believe me i'll be doing!

D
David H

Pat
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: West Wiltshire (Wessex)

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by Pat » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:29 pm

Nice set of pictures - looks like a good event. I'm glad the handicaps worked out.
And having seen MJ's normal results via the Ranelagh series write-ups, I'm not surprised that he won, whatever the handicaps!
(Half Cut and What a Lark Removals Ltd)

Garry R
Posts: 856
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:01 pm
Location: Chapel Allerton Somerset

Re: Holt Tideway race

Post by Garry R » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:39 pm

Point of order David. In case anyone thinks I was trying to slip Gannet into the event (W&C design and build) it was actually Secret Water who was there!! JH design, Woottens built in 1947. I really enjoyed the trip and the race tempered by arriving back to Somerset with a raging sore throat and today the makings of a grand cold. Roll on the next Tideway.

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