Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Chat about CVRDA events
Michael Brigg
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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by Michael Brigg » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:09 am

DAvid, if you want your chance to grab the limelight with some journalistic infamy, you read it here first!

Simon Meacock, sailing with Kate Middleton :shock: in an Austin Farrar designed International 14, K850 "Ripping Yarns" took the Concourse trophy, so eat your heart out Closer, and you will have been viewing the action on the water from a good deal less than 600yds!!
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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by JB9 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:12 am

The 14s looked very good in the BSC photos from the weekend.

Of course, David is now removed my Christmas card list.

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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by davidh » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:25 pm

Well, it just goes to show! The 14 was on my long short list but would not have been top...................

We had quite and indepth conversation on board the rib on how much the 'spirt and ethos' of restoration/renovation should be rewarded. I spoke out, fairly strongly (given my 'guest status') that the Merlins that turned out complete with carbon raking rigs and mylar sails would have to wait another 40 years before they would come into contention..... some of the more 'sympathetic' renovations were far more eye catching and appealing.

So well done to the 14, the comppetition was as stiff for this prize as it was for the results on the race course.

Hmmmmnnnnnnnto be honest, from the pics I've now seen, a certain lady could have been stood on Prinstead Point topless, bottomless and (probably) clueless - the action afloat would still have had the cameras focused on the boats!!!! I did give you a wave Michael but you were working hard at the time and I did not want a ben Ainslie moment with you....as it was, I did have one dodgy 15 seconds when I asked one crew what they were sailing. "a merlin rocket" came the reply. Now I think I was able to discern that for myself, so I tried again...."yes, but what sort". It was like a grove in an old shallac 78 record...the reply kept coming back 'merlin'...... followed by "off". In the end we got there...a IXb...shame as it looked good!

D
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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by Nessa » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:53 pm

We would have had a good weekend but for the fact that our boat was pretty badly trashed as a result of a capsize on the way back in to the slipway after finishing the last race. The boat was on its side for so long while a whole procession of Ribs towing one boat each went past us that it became completely waterlogged and the mast well stuck. When it was dumped at the end of the slipway by the patrol boat we had to wade back out to it (waist deep) to bail it out which took ages. The mast was snapped in two, top of the sail shredded, centreboard bent and a hole gashed into the side deck which had forced the hatch out meaning the boat was absolutely full of water. We emptied it out between the two of us, plus a few people helped us get it up the slip, while we listened to the prize giving.....

Given that I was hit in the back by a Rib carrying a photographer the day before, and that the chaps 'helping' us weren't really clued up, I'm not sure we will go again. I am always aware we race at our own risk, but to be left stranded on an upturned hull for such a long time is not really acceptable.
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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by Pat » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:57 pm

Our experience last year on the rough day when the safety boat seemed to be pushing us further into the mud was one of the factors in deciding not to race on Sunday, but I'm sorry to hear you came off so badly. Being ignored by safety ribs whose wash then pushed you further in, is really not acceptable - they could have dumped their tow on the nearest buoy and helped or at least had the decency to ask if you needed help.

Saturday was a nice day's sailing though and I enjoyed just being on the water with the hundreds of other boats on view in the harbour - our fleet was nearly 80 boats and the X boats and Sunbeams were racing past us with spinnakers up and there were so many other boats out from other clubs that there were sails everywhere you looked. And the club members were friendly and our hosts were so kind, I can't thank them enough, so yes we'll go again.

Get well soon yellow peril!

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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by davidh » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:00 pm

Pat and Nessa,

I have to say that I'm interested in the tale that you tell. As someone who does a significant amount of PRO work, even in the 'nice' conditions on the Saturday, I was puzzled about how you would do the Risk Assessment for an event like this. The boats were all old and could be expected to have all the usual issues - frail in construction and for many of the really older boats, a singular lack of self draining capabilities. Then there was the 'demographic' of the sailors - it would be hard too say that these were the honed, taut bodies of our Olympics Superstars. No, a good percentage of the sailors were older, a group who could well 'struggle' when things go wrong - which they can do at any time! In the end I came to the conclusion that I'd resource this on the same grounds as a youth event sailed in single handers, ie, I'd be looking for an almost OTT ratio of support craft to competitors.

What concerned me on the Saturday was when I saw some RIBS with just a single crew, for this would worry me.

The danger is, if the classic dinghy scene starts to ask for a greater degree of 'coverage' then there is a danger that they can very quickly end up with an event that no club would want to host. As it is, I think Bosham may have been taken by surprise by the late rush in entries, which may have contributed to Sundays 'issues'. Set against this, an entry list of 80 boats is just amazing and shows just how the classic dinghy scene is escaping its early constraints and developing into a very real and active subset of the main sport of dinghy racing, a situation that the CVRDA can rightly be proud off.

It's a shame that the Kestrel got trashed, just contend yourself though that the situation could have been worse........it could have been 'Aggie', your Int 14 that ended up getting wrecked.

The only advice that I'd go so far as to offer is to say that before you make a final call on attending Bosham next year, put the whole thing into context. You'd not raced (or even sailed much) for a couple of years, then you really leapt in at the deep end and put yourself (and Nikki - well done to her) to the test. Had you been more 'race ready' could you have handled things differently? As one who has raced Kestrels (and been PRO for their nationals, twice!) I know all too well that they can be a bertha bear when they go over.

Well done for the gybes, for finishing.... and to all, the club.... verily, classic rule!

D
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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by Pat » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:55 am

David yes, I agree there's some things to consider and as always it is up to us to make our own risk assessment and choose to race or not - Sunday only saw about twenty to thirty boats on the water as many chose not to race.

In both cases I feel the rescue crews could have been briefed better about how to pull a dinghy (old or new) from the mud that is a big feature of the area. Many of the safety crews would have been big boat sailors who've never had that experience themselves. In our case the single person on the rescue boat didn't know what head to wind meant when told we needed to get the boat to that position and it was only the assistance of another safety boat from a nearby sailing school group that sorted things out.

This year we carried a small anchor (a Tideway leftover) stowed below the foredeck with the long rope tied around the mast above the deck, ready to throw or useable as a tow rope or pulling rope if needed.
I've thought about it and worked out that if the rope is tied to the mast at one end and the other end passed over the foredeck behind the jib fitting and then loosely around the boat and back to the mast it would give a big loop to attach a tow rope and pull in line with the mast, giving a better pulling angle with the pull being on the stuck mast more than the hull. It has yet to be tried but has anyone any better suggestions?

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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by Nessa » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:22 am

David, I don't want to criticize the safety at the club much more than I have done on this public forum, but as a coastally endorsed pbi I would say the absolute basic rules are that you don't leave shore without a functioning radio, you always wear your kill cord, you don't try to recover boats with your (literally) bare hands you don't leave a crew on an upturned boat in a channel with a flooding tide when your Rib is capable of towing more than just a nine foot dinghy. When we capsized I was on the board clear of the water. When a boat finally came to us the tide had come in to the extent that the water was then up to my knees. The driver's suggested that we went under the hull to take down the sails! Totally contrary to safety rules and would not have helped anyway. I will not comment on his chosen method for attempting to recover our boat other then to say he would not listen to any of my suggestions. As a Principla who organises many, many courses, often running many simultaneously I would say the boat to competitor ratio was very adequate. Make what you will of that.

I may not have raced much in the last three years, but as the Principal/CI of two different sailing organisations I currently instruct five days a week, lots of which is hands on and which gives me plenty of recent experience! I may not have the 'taut' body I had when I was a 470 crew, but I do have thirty years' wisdom now, which to my mind is a lot more useful. (Many olympians have absolutely shocking seamanship skills!) Nikky's boat of choice is a flippy, tippy Byte C2 - she is not a novice sailor, just hasn't done much racing, hence our survival out there, including all the gybes. I think we made a vaild decision to race which I do not regret. We had bucket, bailer, paddle and long floating tow line, all secured into the boat ready for such circumstance. We knew what we were doing.

The key factor that influences our current decision not to go again is that our boat was literally dumped on the end of the slipway, four feet deep in water, with not a soul around to help. Nik and I took ages getting the water out then trying to get it to its trolley, then slowly and painfully up the slip. The only people who came to help were other visitors. No one from the home club.
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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by Nessa » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:34 am

Pat, I did manage to get the driver to pull the boat head to wind, but it then slipped back again. I asked the crew in the boat to get hold of the forestay - when the boat was on its side - to then work his way up that so raising the mast, but....

Once the mast had sunk again, not helped by our weight on the centre of the hull, (the only bit clear of the water) the best bet would have been to get a line onto the shroud plate to pull it clear, rather than keep screwing it in by pulling at the bow, then with the boat on its side again either to take the line to the shroud plate in the water and over the hull to the rib who could then pull it free by powering away broadside to the boat.

A good line with a carabiner in one end is really useful for this sort of thing.
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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by Nessa » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:13 am

This is how we found the boat

http://jonathanhoare.smugmug.com/Other/ ... &lb=1&s=XL

there are some truly superb photos there!
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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by davidh » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:04 am

Nessa and Pat,

again, thank you for the detail and yes, you are right, an open forum is not the right place for making critical comments. Your thoughts however have helped me a great deal to put things into perspective.

These days, when we host an Open/Championships at Netley (we've just done the RS500/Vareos, together they made for a 60 boat fleet) I insist on a dedicated Safety Officer, tasked with overseeing the activities of the rescue boats.Unless it is ssomething that I feel has been overlooked, the Race team out on the Commitee Boat do not even communicate with rescue boats, we leave that to the Safety Officer as not only is that what he is there for but he has the 'best' overview of the situation. Of course, that is easily done when the Race area can be monitored from a viewpoint high up on the clubhouse - it's much harder somewhere like Bosham.

Lots of food for thought here, you both have my private email address (as does anyone else who wishes to comment),please feel free to do so.

D
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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by Spiderman » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:17 pm

This is how we found the boat
Oh dear Nessa,
I was extremely sorry to hear of your misfortune with the poor old Kestrel after we arrived home on Sunday and she certainly looks in a sorry state judging by the linked photo. I'm afraid that I can't really comment on the various rescue crews abilities as I was fortunate enough not to need their services, however, I was somewhat surprised to find myself in company with the Michael's Firefly, an Int 14 and the Fairey Falcon at "Rookwood", the furthest point on the course which was a gybe mark, and no rescue boat on station. The 14 capsized just in front of me and after shouting to confirm that they were both ok I continued the course back towards the committee boat with the intention of drawing their attention to the capsized boat. The rescue boat must have eventually spotted them as they sped past me in the opposite direction when I was almost 1/2 way back to "Park"!
Unfortunately due to the fact that I was launching from and recovering to Cobnor I was blissfully unaware of your (and others) fate on the Sunday and only really knew about those I could see around me during the race. By the time I had packed up and driven round to the sailing club at Bosham the Prize giving was about to start and I still didn't really get a sense of the havoc that had been wrought on a large part of the fleet until the day after.
Anyway, as I say I am really sorry to hear about what happened and I can understand how you must feel, however, I will say that had I known just how wild it was going to get towards the end I wouldn't have ventured out on the Sunday in spite of the fact that the Shelley survived unscathed apart from one broken batten....I think I was pretty lucky to get away so lightly in the circumstances!

Best regards

Ian

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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by davidh » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:55 pm

Ian,

That was me in the RiB that was commenting on the number of your sail being 'wrong' - 3887 if I remember. That makes it one from a Graham Caws Moth over on the island - and then the 'other' number 3884 would have been on an Izzatt Magnum 6. I spent a lot of time watching your progress and thought at the time that you were blazing something of a trail for the classic Moth scene. I'd hoped that there would have been others........no matter, well done.

Then when I saw Sunday's forecast, I thought that there wouldn't be that much in the way of sailing so didn't travel down so missed the action. Shame, I was curious on how your boat would behave in the dustier conditions, if you held it together then many of the quite widely held misconceptions about the frailty of the boats have been answered!

D
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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by SoggyBadger » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:05 am

Not a nice experience Nessa. Adding in Pat's experience the previous year, they'll have to seriously raise their game before I'd consider going there. Hope the Kestrel's fixable.
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Re: Bosham Classic Boat Revival

Post by davidh » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:31 pm

A big thank you to all who contributed to my quest for further insight on this, both on here and privately via email.

Firstly, a huge well done to Bosham, in many ways they've taken the revival concept that is so popular just along the road at Goodwood and started to apply it to the dinghy/small boat scene. This is important as anyone who was out in the Solent earlier this year will know. The event then was the excellent Pannerai Classic Yacht week, an eye catching extravaganza of wonderful yachts of varying vintages. But, whilst there were some of the smaller more 'accessible' classics at Cowes, I ended up with the thought that the Classic Yacht scene is now well on a par with many of the other 'classic scenes' - with particular reference to classic sports and racing cars in that it is a place for those with full wallets.

Set against this the classic dinghy scene IS accessible and though some of the woodwork that older boats need is beyond the reach of a simple D-I-Yer, much of the elbow grease needed to make boats look pretty is more hard work than skill....much more a case of pots of varnish rather than pots of money.

Sometime back, when Michael Briggs was talking about the restoration of his very early 14, he commented on the prospect of sailing his boat whilst wearing shirt, tie, blazer and cap (he's a Doctor so don't expect the pipe as well!) and in a way this is how the Goodwood Revival has gone.... people have the cars and wear the appropriate clothes to complete the image. I'm not saying that this is more important than the events afloat BUT....it just goes to show what could be done and if any club is positioned to develop the classic dinghy scene, then Bosham has to be a league ahead of the 'rest' already. So well done to Bosham and all those behind the event, they deserve all possible praise and support.

Set against that is the need to balance some of the less positive experiences.....to look at these and try to discover what could have been done differently, by Organisers for sure but equally by the competitors. Certainly some of the boats that I saw would have gotten in to all sorts of problems in the conditions we had a few years back when the CVRDA Nationals were hosted at Netley, in addition some of the older sailors would have found a day of testing conditions a challenge irrespective of the event location (thinks.....Bough Beech 2 or 3 years ago..... that would have tested modern well found dinghies).

So lots and lots to learn for us all............everything from PYs to the potential for a degree of 'scrutineering', to making the onshore socials if not fancy dress then in keeping with the spirit of the event (I want a 60s boat so I can wear flares and a 'tie and dye' tee shirt) but one thing is for certain; next year i'll be at Bosham but out afloat and not confined to a rib just watching!!

D
David H

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