Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

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nwylie
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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by nwylie » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:16 pm

Hi David

You're quite correct The Enterprise is a 1978 Avacraft and the sails Alpha.

Looking forward ( I think !) to your photos .

Neil

Chrisrjwood
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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by Chrisrjwood » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:37 pm

A great weekend with lots of good friends, plenty of wind! And a superb bar-b-q.. Thank you...

Also , a prize should go to the cake makers, some of the best I have ever tasted!

Many thanks also to Ian and Ed for their advice on heavy weather sailing, if I'd spoken to them first we may have been seeing a different leader board LOL.. As it was we gave Ed a run for his money in one race...

Thanks to Dean for crewing (and putting up with my shouting..) Also to Peter who made the racing a pleasure, and deserves a medal for steering us by hand to the finish line when we broke our rudder.

Dean is now 'out on the wire' so look out all you fast boats, although you may be seeing our bottom rather than our transom..

Can't wait till the next one,
Chrisrjwood
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Max McCarthy
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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by Max McCarthy » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:45 pm

Must have been an excellent event if the Y&Y report and all the comments are anything to go by!

I really am hating the way my A level options have managed to have exams which are around this prime time for dinghy sailing. Not just have I missed this wonderful event, but also I shall miss the IC nationals! :roll: I had better write a letter to Michael Gove..... :lol:

On a more serious note, all I can say is that I hope I am able to attend, if there is a similar event next year!

Really does sound as though you all had a very good time though....

Cheers,

Max
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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by Chrisrjwood » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:36 pm

With the wind strength as it was at Roadford, there were a few breakages and other difficulties which meant that some if us were struggling to repair or adjust things between races.

I wonder if it would be possible to stagger the starts more? Possibly two races back to back-lunch break-third race, or perhaps now that the days are longer, one race-lunch break-and then two races back to back, or perhaps a break between each race to let the older ones amongst us (me!) to get our breaths back?

Also, an early briefing would be appreciated so that we could get our heads round the course and perhaps discuss the marks with our crews? I know that courses are sometimes reset due to wind direction etc. but a little more time between briefing and start would be great....

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
Chrisrjwood
Uffa Fox I14 K500 Zeus
Fairey I14 Maelstrom K680
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chris
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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by chris » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:18 pm

Just to add my thanks to Alan and Alistair and all those who helped. Great time as usual.
A broken rudder pintel kept me off the water on Sunday...now to rummage through my boat 'stuff' to find a replacement

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Ed
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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by Ed » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:32 pm

@chris,

you didn't say.....I am sure I could of found something, and I had most of my rudder fittings with me as I was fighting with a broken Pintle on the Jollyboat.

I was amazed it lasted through the w/end.

later

eib
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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by Spiderman » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:51 pm

I would just like to add my thanks to those in the previous posts by thanking Alan, Alistair and all the other helpers from Roadford Lake Sailing Club whose efforts combined to make this year's rally a truly memorable event. It was a great sight to see all the Finns together although they could be more than a little daunting when facing a wall of them on Starboard approaching the first windward mark! It was also quite a spectacle seeing the two Jollyboats at full tilt on the reaches although from my precarious perch on the wing of the Moth I didn't always have much time to appreciate the view!
A great place to sail with a friendly atmosphere and close racing is definitely what it's all about and Roadford certainly provided us with all of that, not to mention the excellent BBQ and Cider on Saturday evening.
I do, however, agree with Chris that the back to back format on the Sunday was pretty hard going especially when you consider the testing conditions and the age of the boats, not to mention the sailors themselves. Some people had barely made it back to the shore after finishing one race when the five minute signal for the next was sounded. This gave no opportunity for a rest or to effect any running repairs between races, possibly resulting in a diminished fleet for the last race. I am quite used to back to back racing when I sail other classes in non CVRDA events, but this is usually because the race course is so far out to sea that returning to the shore between races would be impractical. Please don't take this as a criticism, merely a suggestion along the lines that Chris has proposed that maybe we could have sailed the first two back to back with a break for lunch/rest and repairs, before going out for the final race?
I fully appreciate that the idea was probably to get the racing finished as quickly as possible to allow those with a distance to travel to get packed up and on the road reasonably early.
Thanks again for a very enjoyable event and thanks also to Lyndon and Alan for helping keep the Moth flag flying although Alan's flag was a wee bit damper than most....nice picture by the way. Thanks to Dougal for the nice write up and pics on the Y&Y site.

Regards

Ian M
Looking forward to next year's event already

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Ed
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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by Ed » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:53 am

mmmmm....getting the timetable right is a hard one...

As you say, there are those who want to get the racing done and get home....and others who want to take a more leisurely approach to a nice days sailing.

Maybe we could ask people at the beginning of the regatta what crews would like to do and work from there.

But personally, I would agree with you Ian, I would certainly prefer to have longer rests between the races, even if it meant running later into the day. Especially in those conditions, where boats and bodies were taking a right battering. It would allow for a little more chatting, a little more tinkering and make the day feel slightly less intense.

I find that although I can do 3 races back to back......with a big wet boat, I am pretty tired after each race and a rest would, for me, fit closer into what I feel CVRDA racing should be like. We took a race out on Sunday, both to making running repairs and also to catch our breath, and would of really appreciated a short rest instead.

I admit that on Saturday, I also had the feeling I have on many 'windy' regattas, where you look out on the lake at 4.00pm, after racing has finished at a clearing sky.....an abating wind and what looks like perfect sailing conditions. Now I love the windy stuff, but sometimes I have thought how nice it would be to go out and enjoy some slightly gentler sailing at the end of the day......or even arrange the day so there was one race that was later, in the early evening. I know there are a million and one reasons why not to do this, but still wonder if others have ever thought the same. The CVRDA has always been proud of having 'traditional' boats, but being open to change in how we arrange our racing and association.

This also reminds me that we used to see much more cruising and fun sailing in our regattas. At the end of racing, we would be trying out friends boats, taking out friends for joy sails, sailing to the cafe, playing tag, practicing with the spinnaker etc etc. Somehow the 3 races back-to-back approach seems to encourage a 'get out there....race....and come straight back exhausted' way of sailing. Which for me isn't so 'cvrda'.

But what do others think on this?

Alan and Alistair put on the racing like it was because they believe that is what we want.....and if it isn't, then we need to re-think. Our opinions will influence what other regatta teams will consider the best way to put on a regatta.

cheers

eib
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chris
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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by chris » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:04 am

We sat the middle race out on Saturday partly to see if the wind would ease but because we couldn't cope with three back to back (we had done the round the lake race too). Sunday we watched but this was mainly because of gear failure. Total age of boat, crew, helm=182!

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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by Rupert » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:05 am

There is certainly a tendancy to finish racing at the "normal" time on the evening of a 2 day meeting (so the drinking can start?), but I do enjoy it if some form of sailing carries on into the evening.

I'm organizing 2 events at Whitefriars in the next few weeks (a Juniors camoing weekend and the Minisail training/Nats weekend) - this is an excellent reminder that I don't have to stop things for 5 o'clock on the Saturday! A change of pace is needed, though.
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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by davidh » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:19 am

Ian,

out of all the pictures I took at the weekend, my own favourite is this one (you've not seen this one yet): you've got it nailed, pretty much at flat out speed yet in complete control. If I had to describe what all three of you looked like out afloat - yes you too Alan, for when you were going you were flying.... and it all looked like so much fun.

but there were OTHER moments that I have recorded..... now I could be tempted not to publish these, I'd say the going rate for my forgetting where I filed those shots is a document scan maybe?????????????????

The other thing that caught my eye was the juxtaposition of the Moths and the National 12...... 40 years between them in age, but so much more in every other way!

D
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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by neil » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:44 am

Ed wrote:
I find that although I can do 3 races back to back......with a big wet boat, I am pretty tired after each race and a rest would, for me, fit closer into what I feel CVRDA racing should be like. We took a race out on Sunday, both to making running repairs and also to catch our breath, and would of really appreciated a short rest instead.

.........

But what do others think on this?
I've posted my views on this before, so forgive me for being repetitive.

The early CVRDA days had more of the rally/celebration of the boats feel about it. Now it's very much about the racing. And yes I know they are racing dinghies. When we re-promoted Roadford as a Rally a few years ago I got a lot of flak from some quarters (mainly from people who have never been to an event!) because there should have been more races.

I suppose part of it is that some of the boats are more robust than they used to be - Finns are usually pretty solid and you don't buy a Moth unless you can fix it and sail it. What we don't get anymore is the families turning up, or the scabby Scorpion dragged out of field. There's probably an expectation of lots of back to back racing as this is what happens in class events - lots of short races.

It was good to hear that the full lake was used, always annoys me when the true lake sailing experience is ruined by setting a W/L course right down the middle.

I suppose another issue, and this is not a criticism, is having a 'Classic Championship' at the same time, where there is a expectation for a championship set of races, though without the Finns (and the Moths) the event would have been a lot smaller, probably to the point where it would not be viable to run in the future.

So, there's a competing set of demands for the same event. If the fleet was a varied and mixed collection of classes and a there was large enough turnout to sustain an event then I would think it would be very much a more relaxed approach; but to make an event viable we either have to include the classes such as the classic Finns and Moths or dramatically increase attendance.

The answer is to get more boats out there, but I suspect that this will only happen with a relaxation of the rules and to allow more modern boats, and other classes to come into the CVRDA. I suspect that these boats and their owners maybe more attuned to the competitive side of things, thus putting more pressure on the need for more races at an event.
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nwylie
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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by nwylie » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:42 pm

"The other thing that caught my eye was the juxtaposition of the Moths and the National 12...... 40 years between them in age, but so much more in every other way! "

David H ,Thanks for being the expert Photographer for the w/e .

Can you upload a selection of photos to this website?

If feel sure they would be useful in encouraging more people to attend next year

Neil W

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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by Rupert » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:41 pm

I think Neil and I have been vaguely at odds over the amount of racing an event should have over the years, but I think we have always agreed that there should be a day with no racing at any 3 day Nats. I did this for the Whitefriars Nats, and I think it was the most popular day. When I see "practice races" or "fun races" creeping into the non racing day, then what I see is an organizer lacking in imagination. Non racing days are far harder to organize than racing days, oddly, as there isn't the built in structure. For a 2 day event, it is much harder to justify a non racing day, though, and still keep the turn out.

The Saturday of the Roadford 3 day event used to be spent screwing things back together on the boat, then on other people's boats, before having a lovely sail, maybe a boat swap, and then a big sail past for the paps. I did this again at Whitefriars, and it would be lovely to do it at Clywedog. It gave the non racers a chance to mingle with everyone else, and we were able to occasionally get groups of boats together. A photo of Saskia from the 1st meeting was used for years on posters and the like, taken at the 1st sail past.

This all reminds me. This year's National Rally will be the 15th - surely an excuse for a party? Maybe we should start the drinking Saturday lunchtime, so ensuring no racing that day?!
Rupert

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Re: Roadford Meeting date VERY IMPORTANT

Post by davidh » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:42 pm

Neil,

Increasingly, I'm finding that various fleets have their own preferred SIs - after all, it is 'their' event. My experience is that most host clubs these days are happy to adopt the format - after all, the people sailing know what is best for their particular boat/s. As an 'interested observer' at the weekend, my sympathies go to the RO, who was facing a forecast that suggested more wind later on. Getting the races in, 3 B2B, was a sound plan BUT....it was hard school for sailors and boats alike. When I'm RO, as I am this weekend with the Larks and Scorpions, I try to involve the fleet in the decision making process...again, after all it is there event.

With my RYA hat on (rather than the Y&Y one) I thought Alistair did a very good job in the conditions and if I was mentoring him, I'd be giving very positive feedback. Looking ahead to 'next time' I would have liked a far longer 1st leg, even if it had been more of a reach - but you need a lot more space for the very disparate fleet to sort itself out; had there been more boats, then the chances of a crunch happening were overly high. These are fine detail points....but it is the way to make these events better and better. (you could have kept the course as was, but just on lap 1 sent the fleet much further up (or is it down??) the lake before that crucial 1st turning mark.

Ed, I sympathise too with your views but I fear that what you are seeing is the success of what you started 12 years ago. The nature of the classic fleet is changing and could well end up further from the original ideal, in fact I could see that happening quite quickly. I do not know what the answer is, other than to try to either ring fence some time for non-racing activity - maybe whilst there is a coaching activity running for the racers.

As for the Finns/Moths, this is 2 events that I have seen like this is just over a month and both have been successes. At Hunts and Roadford, the concept has been as I described in the Y&Y article; Create a umbrella event, then populate it with 'sub-events', be that Signets or Finns, Moths. This has to be a way forward for the future for, as has been said, there is now a reluctance for host clubs to take on sub 15 boat fleets.

The other thought that was discussed at the BBQ was the question of getting more of the 'bigger boats' along to keep the Jollyboats in company - for there could easily have been at least one more. Roger D would have been very happy there is his Fireball BUT - would that require some boats sailing a bigger course. These are not negatives but positives - a sign of how much latent interest there is in the classic fleet.

Roadford was, by any criteria, a great success and yet has much more to deliver. I can think of at least a half dozen or more boats that could have been there and with a repeat on the cards for next year, ought to see an even bigger entry!

Can only say well done to all at Braodwoodwidger...work now in hand for the bigger article.

An another little taster for you,

D
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