Baltic Wharf

Chat about CVRDA events
Rod
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: USA

Re: Baltic Wharf

Post by Rod » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:13 am

I guess I can start a PY war from across the pond. In our Classic Moth class we find our Gen 1 (Shelley's, Cates designs) well matched with the Olympic Europe, a design which also fills out our Gen 1 fleet. I see at Baltic Wharf you had the Europe rated slightly faster. I would have rated the Shelley even or slightly faster with the tall rig.

We have had only two modified Stockholm Sprites that have raced Classic Moth and we have determined, based on their narrow waterlines, that they should be faster than the Shelley's and we have raced them in Gen II (the faster ones, with a fleet mostly made up of Mistrals).

Rod
Rod M
Annapolis MD USA

http://www.earwigoagin.blogspot.com
http://cbifda.blogspot.com/

Classic Moth: 105
PK Dinghy

Spiderman
Posts: 218
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:25 pm

Re: Baltic Wharf

Post by Spiderman » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:27 pm

Hi Rod,
It’s nice to know that you are following what is going on in the classic/ lowrider moth scene on this side of the pond. Also great to see your CMBA Facebook page so that we can see what is happening over there.
As there wasn’t a Europe at Baltic Wharf the handicap issue never arose, but I would agree that the Shelley is generally a quicker design. Since I have had her my Shelley has never been beaten on the water by a Europe including a rather nice example with an illegal Kevlar sail that was being sailed by an ex Fireball champion! Pat who is the CVRDA handicap guru keeps all the latest handicap figures on her laptop and frequently asks Lyndon and I to verify the Moth handicaps. I think that Lyndon would agree with putting the various designs in a particular order based on our knowledge of the designs and the performance we have observed. Depending on the choice of rig and whether or not wings have been added it will be something like this: Europa/ Europe, Shelley, Mistral/ Duflos, Stockholm Sprite, Magnum 2/ 3, Magnum 5/ 6/ 7, Magnum 8. Obviously this list is not comprehensive and there are a number of important designs missing, but if a Chelsea Morning or Wimbledon suddenly turned up we would try to allocate a suitable handicap which could be refined later. The CVRDA handicaps are based on the RYA published figures from the time that the design first appeared. As you know things in the world of Moths don’t stand still for long so the official handicap tended to lag behind the performance of the latest designs especially if the were being sailed to their true potential. We try to allow for that and modify the figures based on past performance, state of tue and degree of modernisation. With so few of each design it can be difficult to avoid a degree of “personal handicapping” unless people swap boats occasionally. It is also important to avoid the trap of giving a poorly maintained and badly sailed boat an unfair advantage. The main principle should be to give everyone a fair chance and encourage enjoyable close racing in a friendly spirit. At the end of the day ther can be only one winner and we just have to hope that in the majority of cases that happens to be the person who sailed the best race! There are too many variables for any handicap system to work perfectly all the time, but if you can be seen to be trying to make it as fair as possible then most people are happy. Moths are always tricky because someone new to Moths may be lapped twice even though he is in the same design as the guy who wins, particularly when you start to include the narrow designs.
Anyway I trust that this explanation will result in us stepping back from the brink of war and that we can agree that our perception of the relative performance of different designs is broadly similar?
I really must try to get across to one of the CMBA events one day...anyone there who might be willing to lend me a boat for the mid-winters?

Best Regards

Ian
K2883, K 3464, K3887, K4012, K4015.

Rod
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: USA

Re: Baltic Wharf

Post by Rod » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:27 pm

Ian,

Sorry, I was looking at the 2016 Baltic Wharf results where the Europe was rated faster at 100 and the Shelley and the other low-rider Moth was at 101. Maybe things have been switched up in 2017?

Since the U.S. Classic Moth sails with the low rig and prohibits wings of any sort, we have narrowed the performance bands and makes it easier to lump the different hulls into two groups; Gen II for the faster ones, Gen I for the slower ones. Mostly it depends on a subjective look at the wetted surface. (Though you could say in rough terms that a Gen II hull wouldn't stay upright at a mooring while a Gen I would.) We still run into a problem of lobbying to move a Gen II hull back into Gen I, which may be attributed to a newer skipper not getting the performance a previous skipper was able to attain - a personal handicap if you will. Such rare discussions of moving a hull into another division remains low-key in the CMBA and nobody gets too bent about it.

Gulfport Florida is a great venue for our Midwinters. It sits at the bottom of Boca Ciega Bay, a nice bay, flat water which sits behind the city of St. Petersburg. One can look for a place to stay in St. Pete, on the beach (great sandy beach) if one wants, or stay in Gulfport, a small, funky, little hamlet with a couple of bars. If you wanted a chance at a top placing in our Midwinters you would want to sail a competitive Mistral, which probably could be found for an overseas competitor, given enough time.
Rod M
Annapolis MD USA

http://www.earwigoagin.blogspot.com
http://cbifda.blogspot.com/

Classic Moth: 105
PK Dinghy

Mikey
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:27 pm
Location: Earith, Cambs. United Kingdom

Re: Baltic Wharf

Post by Mikey » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:00 am

David, I feel you are being rather hard on the Merlin fraternity. A couple of weeks ago we had the final DeMay series race at Hampton with 13 boats and many, including War Horse, would then be put away until next year. The Baltic Wharf event also coincided with the RTYC Autumn Trophy at Ranelagh, traditionally the final Merlin event of the year ( and who won Martin Hunter in Quiver!). I am afraid it is a fact, as you state, clubs like Clevedon and Bristol Corinthian are no longer clubs with Merlin fleets and with a windy day forecast perhaps a little too much for the Shearwater boats to venture forth.

Mike.

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