AGM Proposal

and what is happening with the CVRDA today?
Pat
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AGM Proposal

Post by Pat » Sun May 09, 2010 7:52 am

An AGM proposal - that we form a new wing of the cvrda to be "modern wing - boats built before 1985 (or our cut-off date) which are not included in any other wing".

This "modern" wing would make us much more encompassing and enable us to provide racing for ALL old boats. Yes, I know it would include the L***r but let's give it a chance and see what turns out. It would also cover the classic Phantoms, Baker Larks and several others that have become outdated within their class. It would also make explaining the cvrda easier without trying to define "classic" classes, just a simple "All boats built before 1985".

We are, as far as I know, the only organisation in the UK offering racing with handicaps based on age and state of boat and it is these which can be used to balance out the wings, eliminate handicap bandits and ensure all get fair racing.

I don't believe it will bring in huge fleets of L***rs but will attract a few more sailors of other classes and if we find it doesn't work we can change it again.

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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by LarFinn » Sun May 09, 2010 8:29 am

I think it would increase the number of Clubs that would then consider that they have enough boats that are CVRDA eligible to justify holding a CVRDA event.

Would it change the nature of the CVRDA? - personally I don't think so, anyone with a boat built pre '85 is probably concerned about keeping it sailing and be delighted to find a welcoming Association that can help and encourage them AND has handicaps based on what their boat is like, (rather than the World Champions boat).
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Nessa
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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by Nessa » Sun May 09, 2010 12:09 pm

obviously I will fa vour this as it allows entry for the phantome menace.
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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by jon711 » Sun May 09, 2010 12:13 pm

I also would favour this as it would allow older Streakers and the like to compete..

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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by Nessa » Sun May 09, 2010 12:26 pm

old streaker - not a pleasant visualisation until I realise we have one in the garage.....
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jon711
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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by jon711 » Sun May 09, 2010 12:36 pm

Yes, but my voice is not worth much at the moment, but I was thinking of you and a few others when I mentioned Streakers.

Jon

But I start to feel that I will get to much feedback, from unwanted individuals, that will allow this to pass..

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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by chris » Sun May 09, 2010 3:01 pm

Before much useful dicussion takes place I think it is important to get the current constitution up on the front page. The one there is out of date and doesn't show the changes made last year. Some of these changes actually are quite relevant to this discussion but if people don't know about them there's a limit to the usefullness of any discusion. I'm thinking of parts that were added about the inclusion of certain boats, that fall within the ethos of the CVRDA, at the discretion of the committee and organisers. To me that covers this already so I see little point in taking it further. Our parameters were discussed very fully previously and as a result the constituion was modified at last year's at the AGM.

In my experience of clubs and other organisations it is not a rewarding experience to keep going over this year after year in fact it can be quite counter productive. Our rules are flexible and not too restrictive as they are. The more they are modified the more complex and unmanageable they become and we get get further away from the point of the CVRDA. Ed's description in the last thread sums it all up very well.

If a class that does not fall into our present parameters still has an active class organisation it should be that class association that finds ways of supporting their older boats ( they are not lost classes). It was these 'lost classes' that were re-examined more than anything else last year so if Pat could get the current constitution up on the site so people could read it that would be graet.

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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by jon711 » Sun May 09, 2010 3:08 pm

So are we saying that we will not support , older boats???? That seems very unfair Streakers, Ents, GPs and there are others....

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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by Rupert » Sun May 09, 2010 4:09 pm

Ents and GP's are already catered for. There are just a few classes (Streakers and Phantoms are 2) which fall outside the remit, being neither designed before 65 or lost.

As Chris says, the new version of the constitution does go some way towards dealing with the issue. As does the view that any organizing club can set the rules for its own meeting - for instance I can't see Hunts turning down an old Phantom...and I would have been happy to see old Phantoms joining in with the lost classes at Whitefriars. However, that does leave us in the situation where a boat might be welcome in one place and not another, which could cause confusion and bad feeling.

I'm seeing both sides of this. Firstly, we in effect do this anyway, as Merlins, N12's and the like are quite welcome and have been designed well after 1965, in some cases. Secondly, we allow dead boats from this design period, too, though I do feel that they should be racing in a different fleet if possible - the Tonic fits, but really doesn't seem to be within the ethos of the "proper" cvrda.

But, as Chris says, these classes have an association - why are they not dealing with the problem?

If we did go for a "Modern" - not sure about the name - fleet, (designed after 65, built before 85?) my personal view is that we would need to include the restricted and development class boats that fit that catagory into it, too, or it makes even less sense than what we have now.
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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by Michael Brigg » Sun May 09, 2010 7:35 pm

I have always favoured a concept of "Modern Classics."

I said some while ago that I would feel L***r #1 or perhaps Ben Ainslie's Olympic boat would be hard to turn away and Love 'em or hate 'em they will certainly become classic, if lacking some of the legend and myth that adds interest to some of the other classes we sail on this circuit.
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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by Ancient Geek » Sun May 09, 2010 7:53 pm

I agree in principle with Michael with the possible exception of Ben Ainslea's Finn which is just another Devoti Finn sailed by a superb yachtsman, or is it? David Chivers will know!`
The bigger classes have a "Spirit of Tradition" class too, though in this case hardly the correct title I am sure someone can find a three or four word, "form of words" to describe it.
Simples.

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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by davidh » Sun May 09, 2010 9:15 pm

Michael and AG,

I've sat here reading not only your posts, but those above and in a move that would never be normally attributed to me, have spent a long time thinking about how I would frame my reply so that I could say what ails me - without rocking the boat or plunging the forum back into the flames.

So I will start with a reafirmation of my 'faith' - I belive in the creed of the CVRDA and what we're all trying to acheive. But I then have doubts that over these last few days have caused me a lot of soul searching (nothing to do with other issues but one that was fired off by the M14 issue)

Go to the Firefly Nationals and 497 is sailing - yes, one of the boats from the 1948 Olympics. It has been completely rennovated to a high standard and is more than capable of winning the Nationals.

Ditto the Albacore - there are people sailing rebuilt Fairey boats that are competitive as a poorly maintained 'modern' boat.

The Merlins, 12s and 14s all have classic wings - and now there is a series for 'classic Finns'

It would hardly be an exaggeration to say that many of these initiatives have been helped along the way but the success of the CVRDA.... so we have plenty to celebrate.

BUT - is the cause of the CVRDA served when our Nationals could be won by a boat that was fully race competitive at the Nationals for that class? (as indeed happened at netley)

The above has really got me thinking - should I desert the merlin in favour of a boat that is a 'real' classic, rather than just a boat that is convienient to sail in CVRDA events (just so that bad boy Jon can rip them apart?).

I look at Shoestring, Eds IC (now to be joined by Tormentor), the Tonic, Man o'war, Picses....and though it grieves me to say it, Dave C with his Seafire and I think 'Yes'!
I remember turning up at Bristol Avon and meeting Ed for the first time, I had just finished the Sandtex Scow (aka Unit 7) , complete with monster Number 7 on the sails - and Ed saying how pleased he was to see a boat that really was right where the CVRDA should be!

My mind is straying.... Mirror 14/16, Swordfish, Gannet, Typhoon - something that really will be a classic and deserves not only saving but regular outings.

So there it is....I make no suggestions BUT - these boats are out there and all the time we court the 'modern classics' the real 'out to be saved' jobs are slipping through our fingers

D
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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by Michael Brigg » Sun May 09, 2010 10:04 pm

Fully agree David, but as has been repeated several times here, the CVRDA is about suporting rather than dictating to personal preferences. No Snobs, respect all round. A Broad church with no Dogma.

Personally I prefer wood, but many of the best loved boats here are plastic.

A while back I tried to start a thread on "Crufts." Why we like our boats because of their faults. I feel it might be a good time to revive this.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1336&hilit=crufts
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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by davidh » Sun May 09, 2010 10:28 pm

Points that I'm fully in agreement Michael - Which was why I wrote my email firmly in teh 'first person' as that is just me saying how I feel about it.

I really do think that we are close to having it right now....(wing and criteria wise). I would far rather that things were inclusive not exclusive... has to be the way forward

D
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Re: AGM Proposal

Post by DavidC » Sun May 09, 2010 11:37 pm

Whilst I hear what you are saying Michael, I would make one point which is that the mission statement starts off with:

The CVRDA works to...."

In my book that is a pro-active statement, one which says that the association is actively out there looking for ways to fulfill the rest of its mission statement not a declaration of mild support if someone else happens to do something.

D

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