The AGM

and what is happening with the CVRDA today?
alan watson
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Re: The AGM

Post by alan watson » Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:40 pm

Sorry ... I should have read the whole thread before putting in my twopence worth !
But regarding up[dating of original kit:
The Magnum 8 I sailed so disastrously at Roadford is a very good case in point. Almost as narrow as the next generation "narrow moths" ( 12 inch water line width) it has all the disadvantages and none of the ameliorating kit of the later designs ie. T foil - both literally stabilizing and stops dead nose diving and lightweight carbon mast ie minimal inertia and so less work to keep stably upright.
Now it has already been suggested that I cut the boat about remove the unnecessary decking (decrease weight) add a T foil and carbon mast this plus a modern camber induce rig would transform the performance and off 1060 would be a gift. BUT it would no longer be a Magnum 8 but an ALAN WATSON 1 and that's the rub isn't it.
Surely competitors have to accept that you're sailing an old boat so keep it old and enjoy the challenge.
( The 8 is truly brilliant when it goes but, oh no, not another broach .. SPLASH !)
He Ho !
ALAN

chris
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Re: The AGM

Post by chris » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:36 am

And since the cvrda PY would then change you would be back to square one too!

Rupert
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Re: The AGM

Post by Rupert » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:22 pm

Just caught up with this thread following the holidays - sadly, nothing really new to ponder, but maybe a softening of views in places?

DH, Solos and British Moths are in a different position to Phantoms - whether they are competitive in their own fleets or not has never been an issue, (after all, Fireflies always have been), but they were designed in 1953 and 1932, rather than 1971, 6 years after our cut off date.

Of course, the cvrda is now 15 years old, so if it started up now, would the cut off design date have been 1980? Somehow I doubt it, but if it were, we would be allowing Phantoms, Streakers, Miracles, Lightnings, Lasers - all sorts of boats. Oddly, some of those boats would appear to "fit" with the cvrda - a mid 70's Streaker is likely to be as knackered as a mid 70's Solo - but mostly, it would mean the core of the cvrda racing against the very designs the cvrda was set up to avoid...

Now, it seems to me that there is an opportunity for someone to set up a parallel organization which runs racing for boats from more recently designed classes (and newer boats from older classes) which have been left behind by the tides of technology. Lowrider Moths, older Phantoms, overweight Streakers, gaff rigged Mirrors, 1990's N12s - all sorts of stuff. I suspect that there are clubs out there who would be happy to run a start for the cvrda and follow it with a start for the not so knackered old boat society. With Ed having broken ground with the cvrda, it might even be easier to get it up and running, assuming the people are there who want to join in.
Widening the cvrda's remit, however, puts at risk the very boats it was set up to find good sailing for - the post war boom boats. If we have events where they feel they are spectators for more modern machines, people will stop coming.

Handicaps - the aim is that the bandit boat (if we get it wrong, and have one at all) will be a boat with as much original kit as possible. However, generally, the faster sailors win, but no one actually cares that much, once off the water. Many don't care on the water, even. Personally, I find that it is fun to push myself to see how fast I can make a boat go, whether Firefly, British Moth, Minisail or any of the plethora of knackered old boats I've brought to events over the last 15 years. Others want to bring and sail in company beautifully restored classics (though I notice a competitive streak there too (don't I Chris?) in many sailors) and some are there to saail, swap stories and drink a pint or 2. Actually, we are all there for that.
Rupert

davidh
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Re: The AGM

Post by davidh » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:48 am

Rupert,

I have no problems with the British Moths, Solos, Hornets, Firefly or any boat BUT - I do think we need to be aware of how the 'nature of the beast' that is the classic scene is changing - and fast. One danger would be if the intended classic scene found itself infiltrated and then dominated by more modern boats that are allowed in courtesy of our 'open door' policy. In the first decade of the CVRDA, just getting the message out there was the big uphill struggle and the core members of the Association have done wonders by not just getting the concept of the ground, but getting it to where it is today. The turn out and 'ethos' at Roadford suggested that the balance is pretty much spot on - as Pat has said, if it isn't broke..... and she is right!

But we do need to be ever more vigilant, for the problems that are cropping up elsewhere could still do what the cvrda do so well a great dis-service.

Elsewhere, there are already discussions going on concerning what could be best described as 'Prime of Life' boats - dinghies that are not classics per se, but neither are they really competitive within their own fleets. As I've said before, I have no crystal ball, but I have had a busy summer covering all sorts of events around the country.

In the end, we may need to be more demanding about enforcement of entry criteria. Now this will take some careful thought, one event I was talking too had thought about not allowing in boats made from GRP. I was horrified - out goes the Wineglass, Jack Holt's Explorer, Jacksnipe, Typhoon (Hey Neil, even the HIT!) but at the same time a superbly smart Duffin GP14 that is good enough to race in their main series IS welcomed with open arms.
*** THink of it this way - a wooden minisail gets a tick, a grp one a cross!!****
I don't profess to the have the answers, all I'm doing is giving you feedback from the many events that I've covered in one way or another this last 12 months.

But - it is something that we need to be aware off and be thinking about as we move ahead!

D
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neil
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Re: The AGM

Post by neil » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:00 pm

Really? I don't see any CVRDA event not allowing GRP boats.

Like some in the CVRDA I couldn't really give a flying toss what other organisations will or won't allow, so let them bray whilst wearing their red trousers as they wet themselves over 24 coats of Epiphanes that 'their man' has lovingly applied.

If the in-bred, chequebook-wielding, resto-fascists don't want to be sullied by GRP then so be it. Some of us are happy with overweight 1970s/80s GRP. In fact I think there's a case for an event specially for old plastic, with an advantageous PY adjustment for star crazing, black mould in the buoyancy tanks, rotting toe-straps and leaky double bottoms. Rat-rod CVRDA ;). In fact I'm willing to sponsor a prize for the best CVRDA Rat-boat, I'm sure I can craft a suitable trophy out of David's Isopon P38 :mrgreen:
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roger
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Re: The AGM

Post by roger » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:54 pm

What Neil said,

Haven`t we always had a plastic boat trophy awarded at every nationals since time began. I think it has Pat and Sandy`s name on it.


David I think you need to have attended many more events as you still seem to be missing the whole point. Bosham may be happy with the "spirit of the age" thing and Thames based Merlins may be happy with a new boat as a vintage prize winner but the whole handicapping system the cvrda has used for 15 years now has kept the pot hunters out and to be honest we don't have any pots worth winning except the Wingnut and you cant win that with a quick boat.

To be honest this is the same stuff that you were concerned about many years ago when I was chair and there was a major disagreement which caused me to resign and some to be barred from the forum. Nothing has changed in the cvrda and the predicted disaster hasn't occurred yet.

Its great to see Bosham flying a classic flag and creating much more interest in older boats and they have done a great job but its going down a path that I don't want particularly want to follow. I am quite happy with my knackered old boats and the relaxed and friendly racing that cvrda provides and with the numerous friends we have made.
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davidh
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Re: The AGM

Post by davidh » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:07 am

Roger and Neil,

First of all, there was no intention of 'rocking the boat' - nothing could be further from my mind.

I've not been anywhere hear the Thames this year, for the simple reason that had I do so, I think I'd have been unable to sail without lodging a protest (let alone another one for breaches of Rule 42!) and just do not need that sort of C**p in my life right now.

Nor have I been to Bosham (that is not for another 3 weeks) but set against that, I have been at both Hunts and Roadford and were it not for my daughter getting married would have been at Blithfield too.

Now, when I go to these events, as I'm going to be writing about them, I try to be objective and tell what I see. That is not being judgemental, for that is not my place, but sometimes from one step further back, you do get a clearer view.

if you look back at my earlier posts in this string, you'll see that I'm 100% in favour of the line taken by the CVRDA; if you look again, you'll see that I'd rather things didn't change much, if at all - indeed, I was expressing concern that change 'might be on the cards'. About the only thing I would like to see is some more effort and profile given to the 'lost classes' as I really do worry that some of these are slipping through our fingers. I say this with some feeling, for at Hunts and Roadford, our (to date) two best attended meetings, lost classes were conspicuous by their absence.

So no, my comments were far from negative but instead supportive - indeed, my last post was full of praise for the great work done to date. To me, the strongest link though in the CVRDA story is that we can have these discussions and through them, come up with something worthwhile, rather than the messy outcome I'm seeing elsewhere.

D
David H

alan williams
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Re: The AGM

Post by alan williams » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:36 am

Hi Neil
I will be putting up The Shed Trophy for next years Champs. Only boats which are in a suitable condition of being unfettled and rough will be considered. Mould is Good.
Al

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Ed
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Re: The AGM

Post by Ed » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:03 pm

How is the 'shed' trophy awarded?

First 'un-renovated' boat?

Choice by committee of boat with most original condition and place?

Just the most 'un-renovated' boat?

Just the boat in worst condition.....still floating?

Lots of ways you could play it???

eib
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Re: The AGM

Post by alan williams » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:27 pm

Has to be rough and floating.
Cheers Al

roger
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Re: The AGM

Post by roger » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:53 pm

The all out forever winner of the shed has to be that Scorpion at Roadford back in 2004? The decks were rotten and she was so waterlogged it took four of us to lift her off the trailer but she sailed well and the lad who owned her won a trophy.
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Rupert
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Re: The AGM

Post by Rupert » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:24 pm

That Scorp is exactly the kind of boat. Not sure what Alan has planned, but I'd see it as a 4th Concours catagory.

The question is, would some people feel offended if their pride and joy was nominated for the shed award? Imagine, your pride and joy, looked at through rose tinted (or possibly blacked out) specs, is voted the biggest shed at the event...

I'm a massive fan of GRP boats - they are a great way of getting time poor, money poor, people out to cvrda events, and I expect that describes most of us.

News from the AGM: Chris is now Commodore.

Pat K (Merlin 1066) has taken over as secretary.

Keith and Mick were voted in as Honorary life members of the cvrda for their years of hard work running the Clywedog meeting.

The National Rally for 2015 will be at Roadford, but not on the bank holiday, as the traffic is stoopid! Alan, might be worth avoiding the 1st weekend of the school hols too - what about the weekend before that?

We need a venue for 2016.

I have chaired my last AGM. Sadly, this one came out at 4 seconds longer than last year, so I now pass the batton to Chris to attemped to bring the time down further!
Rupert

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Nessa
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Re: The AGM

Post by Nessa » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:49 pm

Hunts might be happy to host 2016, if no one else comes forward/ wants a go.
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