Used Finn Sails

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Brookesy
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Used Finn Sails

Post by Brookesy » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:13 pm

During my stint on the Finn Stand at the Dinghy Show on Sunday Henry Bagnall one of the Squad members mentioned to me that he has a number of used sails that he is needing to clear from his 'loft' and that whilst not suitable for his level of competition are still competitive enough to use for club level events.
If anyone is interested let me know and I will try to co-ordinate on a first come basis.
Typically he is not sure exactly what he has until he digs them out, but thought to be all Norths a couple of D2's, same HV2's and posibly an HV2L.
These sails are all Mylar types and are cut to 'neutral' ie not too stiff not too soft for details see the North Website, but basically the D2 is fuller ideal fat boys and waves, whereas the HV2 is flatter for the slimmer Finn sailor ( there are some), or lakes and higher breeze for the fuller figure.The L is for lighter winds, lighter cloth but same cut as the HV2.
He is looking for £50-£75 depending on the condition of each,
but when you look at the new prices £1100 for new I think you will agree its not a bad deal.
Send me a PM if you are interested, I should add I have no financial interest in this deal but wish I had known about it before I did a deal earlier for an HV2.(Only joking Neil)
GBR74 ex custodian of
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alan williams
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by alan williams » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:55 pm

Hi Graham put me down for one of them.
Al Finn 424.

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neil
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by neil » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:04 pm

ahhh, but mine/your HV2 is in better conditon. Put me down for a D2 though.
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by Garry R » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:36 pm

Alan and Neil

You managed to nip in ahead of Ben Ainslie - I am sure he is gutted!

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Ancient Geek
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by Ancient Geek » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:15 pm

He is too busy with John Bertrand winning the Etchells Worlds lot of talent in that boat.
Simples.

andrew
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by andrew » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:12 pm

I would be very grateful if you could put me down for an HV2 "the sail for the slimmer sailor"

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neil
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by neil » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:23 pm

We also have a stash of older North dacron sails for the classic Finn. I have some coming from Grafham (as advertised on this forum a while ago.) I also have about six sails at the back of my boatshed that have come with other Finns I've had and some i was given by Rodney from suntouched when I collected my Pata.

I'll make sure I have a few spares when I do CVRDA events - these will be £20 sails, but hopefully we have enough sails to make sure all the classic Finns have access to spares if required.

When the weather improves I'll get them all out and see what's there.
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jpa_wfsc
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by jpa_wfsc » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:37 pm

neil wrote:We also have a stash of older North dacron sails for the classic Finn. I have some coming from Grafham (as advertised on this forum a while ago.) I also have about six sails at the back of my boatshed that have come with other Finns I've had and some i was given by Rodney from suntouched when I collected my Pata.
These are sounding more like what I need - my Finn came with three very worn dacron sails.

Possibly I might be tempted by a mylar sail for club racing - although I do not think I have the cheek to stay on the 'classic finn' handicap that I am using with modern sails!

Would these Dacron sails be going to 'work' on my needlespar mast? Are they cut to suit modern carbon spars?

j./

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neil
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by neil » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:46 pm

It's going to depend on your mast. The bend characterisitcs of a Needlespar will be different to a carbon mast, but there again carbon mast all have different bend figures. I know some people have got a mylar sail matched to a Needlespar, I tried an HV2 and a Victroy on a stiff Needlespar - no good.

The easy way is to try sails on your mast, Alan W used my Victory on his Needlespar and was happy with it.

If you bring the boat to Roadford or do Clywedog I'll bring some sails with me so you can try them on your mast.
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Rupert
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by Rupert » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:42 am

I remember Peter V saying once that while bend characteristics mattered, a good sail that nearly fitted the mast was much faster than a tired old sail that was designed for it!
Reading this and other Finn threads, it seems that the classic Finns have got their act together (parts hoarding to share with others, advice and support) much more than most other classes. Makes me wish I was a little bigger and falling apart less!
Rupert

alan williams
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by alan williams » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:00 am

Hi Neil also need a decent Dacron sail.
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Ed
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by Ed » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:30 am

Rupert,

That is interesting.....I am sure Peter will be along shortly to say his bit....but...

I thought that Peter had rather decided the opposite on his fin. He has two sails one newer and one a very old elvestrom. He (and I when I had the boat) always used the newer sail, but in fact Peter reckoned the boat went faster with the old elvestrom which was better matched to the old Bruder mast.

He certainly wasn't slow with that mast/sail combination!

maybe he will turn up soon and be able to correct me in person

cheers

eib
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by Rupert » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:45 pm

I have a feeling he was looking at a particularly nasty old sail at the time...
Of course, he may have changed his mind with added experience. Peter seems to make a Finn go fast whatever he is using.
Rupert

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Brookesy
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by Brookesy » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:27 pm

There is no black art to Finn sails really , its all down to the bend charateristics of the mast.
In some ways the latest carbon masts are not a million miles different from the old wooden spars, in that it is posible in extreme cases to alter the bend by adding or removing material until you get what you want.
The ideal Finn mast is one that is stiff enough to keep you hiking hard when going to windward with the boom on the deck, then as a gust comes the tip bends as more wind is in the sail, and as the boom is on the deck the effect is that the leach opens and spills until the gust eases allowing you to carry on enjoying the pain.
The heavier or fitter you are the stiffer the mast you can use until you become overpowered.
All that is left to be done is to ensure that the sail is cut with the right ammount of round or curve to match the mast bend itself.
Nowadays we are a bit scientific about it and measure the bend at 1/4, 1/2 and and 3/4 distance by fixing the spar at one end horizontally and suspending a 12kg weight and noting the bend against a taught line drawn along it, this is done both fore and aft and laterally, these numbers which include tip deflection (are Jealously guarded) and used by the sailmaker to cut a standard middle fit sail to be an exact fit.
Alloy masts tend to bend from the deck fitting, early carbon masts mirrored them, whereas the latest wing masts tend to be a little stiffer, with an even curve from heel to tip and v quick tip/response. It is nearly always posible to recut a sail to match the round, but its easier to cut a sail from a stiff mast to a softer one as you take material out.
Sail shape is another story but that is why we have inhaul, outhaul and downhaul controls, it takes your mind off the numbing pain from hiking.
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PeterV
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Re: Used Finn Sails

Post by PeterV » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:46 pm

It's important to use a sail that's matched to the mast but, a knackered sail is not a lot of good either.
I use a 1960's Elvstrom sail with the wooden mast because it's great fun, but it would be a lot faster with a new sail that matched the mast, but I cannot find one because the mast bend of a wooden mast is different from a Needlespar and different from a carbon. I haven't yet had the money to have one specially made.
Most dacron sails will have been cut to fit a Needlespar mast. Very few mylar sails have.
An early (round) carbon mast bends very similar to a Needlespar so most dacron sails fit.
A carbon wing mast has much less bend and most mylar sails are designed for this. Some early mylar sails were cut for a round carbon mast and will fit a Needlespar reasonably well.
If you try a modern mylar sail on a Needlespar you'll find that you cannot bend the mast very much (with the mainsheet) before the top of the sail (where a Needlespar bends a lot) becomes very distorted. If you don't pull the boom to the deck the boat will sail pretty well but will not be very fast upwind. I haven't yet done the final bit of evaluation which is to rake the mast back a lot more so the boom can come to the deck without distorting the sail. A trial against another Finn would then be needed.
Hope this is helpful.
PeterV
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