symmetrical spinnaker

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pegasus
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Post by pegasus »

Does anyone know of anywhere on the internet or in books which will help to teach me how i can trim a symmetrical spinnaker on my peggie i have experience with an asymmetric but this is a lot harder. so i am admitting defeet and calling for help.
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andrew
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Post by andrew »

Go to Batt sails website to Merlin rocket tuning and sail setting notes.
Merlin Rocket website has some info in the new library section.
keithr
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Post by keithr »

As one who has sailed at sharp end of peg 194.

If I wasnt grumbling that the sheets were burning my fingers David reckoned it wasnt trimmed well enough.

Basically you need the pole as far to windward as it will go without the leading edge of spinny falling off.

Pole height and length are fairly critical but that is trial and error.

Depends what spinnaker you are using as the original spinnakers were like half a parachute and only worked on a dead run.

Keith ( Bag of Bits peggie, the two tone job)
Two Peggies 199,100,
Flying fifteen 1855,
Flying fifteen 204 (now in the barn)
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roger
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Post by roger »

Try to get a ride with someone as crew. They are not as complicated as people make out. Gybing is about the only awkward bit but that comes with practice.
Last year at Clwedog my brother crewed and he hadnt sat in a boat for years and hardly ever flown a spinaker and by the end of the day we had become quite proficient(couldnt catch Keith though[:(!])
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markj
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Post by markj »

But Roger you went slower with it than without! Seriously though spinny trimming is as Kieth says. Pole as far aft as possible with out the lead edge collapsing( typicaly 90 degrees to wind angle, then ease sheet until the front edge is just on the verge of calapsing, as it starts to colapse sheet in a little , then constant adjustment. Do not over sheet as this will make you go very badly, if you think you are oversheeting you proberbly are. Real secret is practice practice and more practice.

Cheers
Mark
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pegasus
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Post by pegasus »

cheers guys all that stuff is great i want go out and try now!
i am using a 505 spinnaker just now so you are all welcome to come and watch!!!
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Brian E. Evans
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Post by Brian E. Evans »

Tie a telltail in the centre of the spinnaker pole. This helps you judge whether or not your pole is square to the wind.
Then if you are sailing at Clwedog Do not sail in too close to the shore, or the down curl over the mountain will dump you. Ask me how I know.
Brian Evans.
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pegasus
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Post by pegasus »

How?? i havnt sailed there yet dont know if i want to now though!
what happened?
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Brian E. Evans
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Post by Brian E. Evans »

It has been many years since I sailed there, I had the first pegasus to sail on the lake after the dam was closed.
I was a member at Clywedog. At that time the race committee would place the marks tight to the north shore near the observation point, also at that time the lake was some 50 feet lower than it is now. There was a tendency for the wind to whip around the hillside and frequently change direction close to the shore (Shoreline effect). It always seemed to get me at the mark, as I was dowsing the Spinnaker and getting sheeted in for the next leg.
B.E
alan williams
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Post by alan williams »

Hi I used to crew for an exworld champion when I was a kid he would always insist that the windward luff of the spinnaker should be just about on the point of collapse inorder to get best power from it. This requires alot of practise and also co-ordination from the helm as some times you cannot sheet fast enough to prevent a collapse. However once working together the boat will really move, Cheers Alan
You should really have a look at J. Costers Cougar Cat. Contact me if interested.
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pegasus
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Post by pegasus »

Im sorry im not familier with J. Costers Cougar Cat but am interstead i think.
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Pat
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Post by Pat »

Tapered line helps a lot - on both the Lark and the Merlin we use 3mm line with 6mm spliced for the centre section that you hold.
Unless you are on a large lake with constant wind, don't cleat the guy unless you're on a tight reach as you need to be constantly adjusting the pole angle to suit the shifty winds. I hold one line in each hand and play them together, easing one as much as I tighten the other to keep it flying evenly.
Twinning lines are really useful to hold the guy down but leave the sheet free.
Watch the position of the luff curl - it should be in the centre of the luff so adjust the pole height up or down. See the Merlin articles for details.
Most of all - GO OUT AND PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.
(Half Cut and What a Lark Removals Ltd)
keithr
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Post by keithr »

If you are using a 505 spinny dont launch in anything higher than force 3 as it is probably a bit over the top, fireball size is nearer the mark.

Keith
Two Peggies 199,100,
Flying fifteen 1855,
Flying fifteen 204 (now in the barn)
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pegasus
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Post by pegasus »

:D yer i noticed at roadford! was biggest there.
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davidh
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Post by davidh »

Hi there!

Re your question on spinnaker setting and the difficulties of 'gettig it right', you don't specify if you're looking at the problem from the front or the back of the boat. So many times when the spinni exercises it's will to snarl up and knot itself around anything and everything it's often more a failure of the 'Tight not' on the helm rather than a lack of effort or input from the poor crew.

There are two spot on books that will help with both aspects: the Lawrie Smith book on Dinghy helming and the julian Brooke Houghton on Dinghy Crewing both have significant sections on Spinnaker work backed up with really good picture sequences. If you do as they say then you can't go far wrong.

Most 'cock ups' (sorry if that's non PC but they get called far worse out on the water) are a combination of four main factors:
Poor Technique
Lack of practice
Insufficient Communication between helm and crew
Naff gear/systems.

The other issue - as to Spinnaker size - is really only a small part of the problem as (again being non PC) 'size isn't everything'. The 505 spinnaker for example comes in many guises - from the old 'Slogger cut' which had flat mid sections to make reaches easier to a tri radial top and bottom with maximum fullness that was just great when the courses demanded very deep reaches. For a Pegasus I'd think the 505 miles too big, a fireball still at the maximum - you might find that a sail from a Scorpion for example is not only a lot easier to use but might also set a whole lot better.

Are you anywhere near the central south coast, if so I'd be more than willing to have a look at your set up and if/when the boats ready to go could see how your systems work.
best regards
David
David H
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