Jollyboat

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Andy P
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Jollyboat

Post by Andy P »

There is one here in Cowes, sitting in a front garden for a few years, the cover is now in ribbons, does it need saving?
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll ... 24.52,,0,0
roger
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by roger »

It would be expensive if it was free just to get it on the ferry. Such a shame though.
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Ed
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by Ed »

mmmmmm.....

well interesting....or could be very interesting.

Thing is Jollyboats tend to turn up all over the place and there is more than likely to be a few on the island....

But.....J1 Jollity was being renovated on the Island and I havn't heard anything about that project for ages, so I do wonder if this is Jollity.

If so.....then Jollity is the boat that Uffa Fox built (presumably in conjunction with Fairey). But is also the boat that he wrote about and raced around the country, transporting it on the top of his Humber or whatever. There are also a ton of photos around of this boat and it was very well known.

If it is that boat....then it would seem important that someone looks after it and gets it back on the water, for the sake of our maritime heritage and all that.

Maybe David or AndyP you could follow up?

Or maybe better....we could post to the Uffa Fox FB group and that would get picked up by Mike Dixon, who would most probably know....and be interested in finding out what the situation is....if it is Jollity??

After all that....most probably isn't....but who knows.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
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Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
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davidh
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by davidh »

Ed, this is easily done and I can take pics - plus a video clip showing the boat as it is.

I wish I could find it in me to think better of the Jollyboat, sadly I hold the view that by then, UF had failed the test so many other designers also fail..... he just didn't look at the boats that were sailing better and see what features he could 'borrow' to improve his own designs.

I think your comments over on the 'other' thread - re the Whitefriars MR, are about the best and most pragmatic 'appraisal' of the situation I've seen in a long time. In the end, from what I see, the answer is for the CVRDA to take action to set even more punitive PYs to boats that decide to race in the classics with their modern carbon/mylar rigs. It is not the case that they can't sail with us, but if they do, it is on the 'modern' MR PY. I can see this line being taken at other events... the alternative is that people with more original boats will just no longer bother to turn out.

As for the bigger boats, to me it is the big 3 Cs, Cost, Crews and Compression - you really do need a bit more space to make them work!

I would still love to see an event scheduled for one of the bigger locations where we could get the 14s, Jollyboats (yes, even them) and other trapeze boats all together in one go!

D
David H
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by whacko! »

I presume 'Compression' refers to size of sailing water required rather than storage?!

Storage is my problem and, I suspect, one shared by many others. Otherwise I'd be tempted to collect interesting examples of various classes but not necessarily with a view to racing them (bit of thread crossover from Ed's comments re the Merlin). I'm quite happy reserving racing for my modern boat while taking FB6 out for occasional cruises down the harbour. I realise that doesn't make me a good CVRDA member though!

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JimC
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by JimC »

davidh wrote:... to set even more punitive PYs to boats that decide to race in the classics with their modern carbon/mylar rigs.
When I was organising old boat handicaps for the Cherub Nationals at a time where boats wehere updated to greater or lesser extent, we principally based the handicap on the newest feature present. We also found that you need to handicap *much* more aggressively than simply using the historical handicaps if you really want even racing between older boats and current ones.
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Ed
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by Ed »

We also found that you need to handicap *much* more aggressively than simply using the historical handicaps if you really want even racing between older boats and current ones.
yes, Jim, this is our experience also.

Regarding the Jollyboat; I love em....but I certainly wouldn't suggest they were on the bow-wave of best design practice....not at all, and I don't think that is the point either. There is the old adage that designers only ever design one boat....and then go on using the same design in different lengths, beams, sizes etc. Well, there is hardly any designer for whom this was more true, than Uffa Fox.

But still, if you like Uffa Fox designs, and I do (from the Firefly to the Flying series of boats).....and if you like Fairey hot moulded construction which I really do, then the Jollyboat holds a position at the pinnacle of those boats as the most exaggerated example of how far Uffa could take his basic dinghy design before it fell apart.

What makes the Jollyboat fun is as much to do with how it looks and what it represents, as its performance. It is not just that the lines are somehow echoed by the later designs of the Jaguar E-type (61) and the Ferrari 275GTB (64) but the Jollyboat as well as the E-type and the 275 were all reflections of the excesses of the post-war exuberance of design; You could call them an icon of the brash optimism of the 50s/60s, reflecting, the push to 'go faster', 'be longer', stretch the boundaries, not worry about the cost. They were all about 'showing off'. They were expensive toys for the expanding middle classes. They were big, fast, flash and in your face. No surprise then that the Jollyboat was always much more successful and popular in the USA, Canada and Oz. It just fits the national personality better.

When in 1954, the Jollyboat did an average of 17.8Knots on Edgbaston Resevoir, that was considered very fast indeed....and to be honest, I reckon that still is pretty damned fast for a dinghy.

So, no, I don't claim it gets a place in our history books due to the worthyness of its design, but I think it does deserve a place simply for being what it is. The boat with a reputation for being the biggest, fastest thing on the water of its time, even if this was largely based on marketing hype.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
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Andy P
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by Andy P »

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Ed
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by Ed »

Have to say, it doesn't look like Jollity.....it looks like something much later.

Still, nice boat and I hope it doesn't just sit there till it rots.

I have no idea why.....but there are some Jollyboats around where the bow has a much softer transition from stem to hull-line. There are not many of these....but this looks like this may be one of these.

No idea how this came about, but presumably the mould was changed a bit at some stage??

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
Andy P
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by Andy P »

I remember sailing against one many years ago - it seemed to have a very short spinnaker pole, and a very big spinnaker, so that in light winds the kite got run over and stuck under the bow!
Rupert
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by Rupert »

I'd not want to tow it on that trailer...

I'm with Ed on the Jollyboat thing. There are several very successful boats that weren't really cutting edge when they were designed (the Firefly is another, and the Finn) that were just so good looking and so nice to sail that it really didn't matter. Yes, Uffa could have revised his lines - especially to make the sterns more powerful - but that would have taken some of the grace away.
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Ed
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by Ed »

it seemed to have a very short spinnaker pole, and a very big spinnaker, so that in light winds the kite got run over and stuck under the bow!
yup.....that sounds about right!

Originally the kite was a totally enormous baloon kite, with as you say a titchy boom. Only really usable straight down wind, and as you say running over the top was very common. Most boats these days go for a smaller flatter kite, with of course a longer pole!

eib
Ed Bremner
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Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
andrew
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by andrew »

At a foolish time in my dinghy life I bought Jollity.
She was on the Island and was part way through a restoration.
Deck removed but all other bits present.
Including J1 sails.
I managed to trace a previous owner through the JBOA records.
It is now stored undercover on a purpose built cradle and on the long list of things to do.
The bow shape of Jollyboats did change and this is a picture of J261 and J26.
J261 in the foreground.
Incidentally J26 is for sale and negotiable.
See - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4753&p=41382&hilit=j26#p41382
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June 08 1 019 - Copy - Copy.jpg
(25.2 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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Ed
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by Ed »

Hi Andrew,

that is great news.

I knew that the rebuild on Jollity had faltered, but didn't realise that you had now got it. That is a relief.

Do you know anything about this Jollyboat on the island. Do you agree it looks like a later boat?

I know you are trying to sell rather than gain Jollyboats....but do remember I still have J335 as a project looking for a home.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
andrew
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Re: Jollyboat

Post by andrew »

Hi Ed
Yes it looks a later boat.
The picture I have added says "not downloaded yet"
Can anyone see it?
Happy to email it if anyone interested.
It shows how the stem of the later boats was shorter and less vertical.
Perhaps it was done to get then quicker to plane.
If anyone is passing it would be good to know what number she is.
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