merlin r 1441 for sale

keithr · Post by **keithr** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:20 pm

This popped up on my search, seems a nice one???, not many bids is it not a good design??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... &rd=1&rd=1

Keith

Chris M · Post by **Chris M** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:01 am

It was a great boat 5 years ago, pretty much as origional, spinny sheeted inside forestay wooden boom etc. It had been garage stored up till then too.

Looks like it needs a little TLC now, but if i could justify it i'd buy it!

It's a proctor XII so good inland and a great river boat.

keithr · Post by **keithr** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:59 am

Thanks Chris

Just off to the club, first race day. I may have a go on this one,

I will have to start shipping some boats up to the club though or Su will smell something is afoot.

Garry R · Post by **Garry R** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:39 am

Well Keith - did you get it? Fortunately, with my propensity for palindromic numbers although I saw the boat I didn't realise it was 1441 !!!!! Phew - a narrow squeak. Gannet is ready for the fray now - she was rigged yesterday and I already have a crew and plans for going to Clywedog so beware - the Scottish contingent will be there provided there are no snags (Dad isn't well eg!!)

davidh · Post by **davidh** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:32 am

Keith, Gary and Chris.

I had a Mk XII back in the 70's and found it a handful when racing on the Solent. But there is a link from the advert for this to yet another Merlin on Ebay, for 2895.

But I don't know the 'Broad Scooter'. Is that correct for 2895.

In the absence of a Booth boat I could end up shaking out the piggy bank for this!

D

Post by Ed » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:34 pm

OK....I will go and get the book....

ah now....mmm....

ah yes here it is ...

A Broad Scoter design by R.Debenham, built by Richard Debenham in Lowestoft in 1974. Last known club: Redditch Called Hispaniola.

Would look design up in MR book.....but I seem to have lost mine!

cheers

eib

Post by Ed » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:46 pm

Gosh, found MR 2895.....looks beautiful.

very very nice.

would certainly tempt me if I was looking for a merlin from that age.

The only thing I would say......

its from that age of merlin where it has a high bow-tank and would of originally had a traveller on stern. Many people changed over to a mid-sheet arrangement on a hoop as looks like has happened on this. General opinion was that this never really worked. without the low tank the boat was not stong enough to really make best use out of the hoop and you lost the ability to jack on rig-tension with the main-sheet.

Would this change my mind about buying it.....no not really....looks georgeous.

Smokers is nice too.....seem to remember that at Cookham.

cheers

eib

davidh · Post by **davidh** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:01 pm

Ed,

yes, a smokers is a very nice boat and quite rightly deserves the title of (possibly0 'best all round Merlin'. If you REALLY want to go quick in the light stuff yet can't keep the kilo's down (from you that is - not the boat) then the original 'Satisfaction' would be great too.

2895 does look very pretty but there lies the problem - I think the bidding on this will be 'brisk'. Shame that as it would be a good boat for the spread of CVRDA events - including the sea events such as brightlingsea and Netley.

I think if I sailed somewhere like Shearwater I'd change back to transom sheeting - but then 10 seconds contemplating the gybe and I'm back to 'never'.

May still bid though on 2895..... as there don't seem to be any Booth boats around!

D

Chris M · Post by **Chris M** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:36 am

Loads of the earlier (30xx-31xx) NSM and Summer wines and the later Smokers had high tanks and hoops from new.

A traveller may be better, but championships were won by these boats so it may be somewhat overstated.

Post by Ed » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:22 am

You might well be right Chris....

as I said it was only a recieved wisdom and not wisdom that I have in the past taken any notice of. I put a hoop and spinnaker shoot on my 1954 MkIX. I might not of pointed quite so high....but when sailing on the docks, it meant that I could use the kite effectively, getting it up in seconds and jybing on wind demands, in a way that I never could with bags and stern sheeting.

The MkIX was amazingly tough and stiff anyway. I think I had more problems with 2900 and in the end put in struts to provide some extra mast-to-chainplate strength, which did I feel help.

I was just passing on the opinions of Dan Alsop in his article about putting new rigs on old boats, which is or used to be on the Merlin site.

It certainly looks like this boat was stern sheeted anyway.

cheers

eib

keithr · Post by **keithr** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:20 am

Hi

Re 1441 I was still in the hunt till 5 mins to go but I stopped at Â£135 ( I know I should have prized the wallet a bit more but heh I have sheds of boats already and it was a whim)

Chris M · Post by **Chris M** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:11 pm

Dan certainly knows his stuff, but i find it odd that hoops predated low tanks by a number of years if they destroyed the boats windward performance. Maybe his boat that he converted was more flexible than most, or the rest of the rig was made to suit a traveller?

Just an interesting point

Post by Ed » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:41 pm

Quite likely all of the above....

certainly sails being cut for a traveller, which was another point he made.

But its a development class and in the end I guess low tanks came in for many reasons, but not least of which to stiffen up the boat a bit, which may of been more necessary with the hooped boats.

Don't know really and certainly don't claim to be an expert on it.....Do you have any thoughts David?

cheers

eib

davidh · Post by **davidh** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:48 pm

errrr...yes, I suppose I do!(Alan would have shouted 'liar' if I'd said otherwise!!! - and mine's a Wadworths 6X please)

IN theory the hoop didn't really change that much in the way of sheeting angles - nor was the transom sheeting radically better. Transom sheeting did though have two very strong points: It's very precise - and you can easily control leech tension without using too much kicker (and hence inducing mast bend).

The subject is covered in the MR book, in the chapter on Rigs. What they try to say there is that the rig changed - because the boat changed (hold on...Dinghy Sailing Mag - 3 issues ago - all the pictures of John, Chris, Sandy/Pat and co set all this out) but the short answer is that as the boats got beamier - the rigs HAD to change. Poor old Mike Mac went from being the class standard to almost an outcast - in a season no less, by failing to see that a beamier hull offered the option of a more powerful rig.

Look at the problem from another nagle - that helps sometimes!
It is rig tension that is the problem. Suddenly the class wanted LOTS of it - to induce the prebend that made the rigs of the Morrison era work. But now, with deck stepped, raking rigs, there is far less tension required. The trick is to decide what you want to mast to do - then help it bend - or beef it up.

For something like a smokers - or 2895 - I'd probably go for lowers AND a strut - then use quadrant levers on the shrouds to tighten everything up to the point that the mast was working for a lardy lump like me.

Of course - the modern boats DON'T need this as they don't sail with the lardy lumps any longer..........

D