Mirror mast top collar

[Nessa]

Doe anyone have knocking about in their bits box one of those steel collar things that sits on top of a wooden Mirror mast to attach the shrouds and forestay to? I have been asked to do one up and this part is missing.

Thanks,

Nessa

[Michael Brigg]

Not sure what this bit is. Mine simply has shrouds.forstay etc with a tightish loop and the mast top is made "with a knob on top" so to speak.

The loops simply loop over the Knob and rig tension holds them in place. The jib forestay attaches to a double ended strop at the top held in place by the other strops above it.

In order from bottom up, jib attatchment, forestay, Spinnaker (if you have one) shroud1, shroud2.

Its as simple as that. I guess a metal collar might improve the arrangement, but mirrors these days seem to be getting sooo competetive... (weight on the ends and all that)

[Rupert]

The only metal bit I can think of is the Spinnaker crane? But the shrouds don't attach to this.

[roger]

The only metal bit I can think of is the Spinnaker crane? But the shrouds don't attach to this.

Cor that was posh having a spinaker crane. Mine only had another strop as described by Micheal.

Nessa my old Mirror 4380 had no metal fittings at the top of the mast but was exactly as Micheal describes.

Rog

[chris]

I have some old mirror spars and bits (free to a good home) saved from when the club cleared out it's store but nothing like that.

[Nessa]

hmm, perhaps then I am expecting too much. There is a boat at Hunts that has a collar as I describe, but the one I'm concerned with is a 3XXX number, so perhaps the loops simply fit on the knob? The other Mirror (with the collar) is newer.

Since the hull is buried under a thousand layers of paint I doubt weight will be an issue any where, let alone the ends!

[jpa_wfsc]

I have seen collars in both metal and nylon, and they are meant to stop the shrouds wearing into the wooden top of the mast. I don't think they are necessary - both our mirrors have 30+ yr masts that are original and plain wood at the top. And to use them you have to get the top of the mast turned down to a smaller diameter - not simples.

A mirror _needs_ a mast crane for the spinnaker halyard - they get the hoist a few inches in front of the jib and stop horrible tangles. A positive side effect iks that the crane holds the four loops in the stays on the mast.

I do seem to remember a Gull with gunter rig, this had a ring with three tangs on it to which the stays were shackled - rather like a conventional wooden mast. Mirrors never had that as far as I know but you might possibly be expecting it?

Get one of these JHHA4032 and replace the original fitting on the gunter - you will now be able to get the gunter up vertical and in contact with the mast - and the sail will set sooooo much better. Best £3:50 spent in my whole dinghy life. We used to file down the top part of the gunter (a lot!) to make the rig flexible and responsive to gusts - until class rules got tightened up.

Enjoy your mirror! I keep feeling that the Mirror ought to be 'in' cvrda as old ones are not even slightly competitive with the new FRP, burmuda rigged ones - same story as the Phantom class and so many others. But there is always going to be somewhere to race a mirror and even an original spec one can do well in club racing if sailed well and kept down to weight.

[roger]

John the mirror is in the cvrda. I beleive Toy Box had her final sinking at the Bowmoor CVRDA event.ToyBox was Charlies first boat and Katherine put her foot through the floor and the rescue wouldnt beleive her when she said she was sinking.

[Michael Brigg]

Hi Nessa,

The Mirror is well worth a try. Teaching my children in it I found it to be a much underated and surprisingly fast little boat. It is sad that the class have abandoned the original ethic whereby everything was user servicable and opted for the Bermuan rig. Its far less educational to rig, far less attractive, and far too powerful for the majority of children (for whom the Mirror is a natural training racer) to get the best out of. It is also too powerful for the majority of older hulls to cope with once there is a bit of rig tension. I already imagine hundreds of family favourites all over the country kebabbed in the same style as a Henshall Contender.

Tens of thousands of boats are in a stroke rendered uncompetitive by a decision nominally in the cause of reducing costs. (Seems unlikely to me and besides, since when did cost ever stop a racing sailor from seeking to gain an advantage by improving his rig. In truth I think the big boys, (grown men in fact) who race at championship level feel foolish with a gaff. It doesn't match the musto and Harken sponsorship kit.

From this... .

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...to this.

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A modern mirror could make your Aggamemnon look like Kon Tiki!


And then this brings me to Roger's Toy Box.

Putting your foot through the floor of a mirror is easily done, NOT because of a poorly executed landing from a Double Axel (or a crash tack) but litterally because you may be skating on "thin ice."

The main strength to the floor/skin of the boat is the support of the water underneath it. If however the hull has a split then this wont help. I have noticed many older mirrors (especially) and other flat chine boats tend to split under the helms feet. I think this is not due to heavy feet. but a heavy boat, sitting and worse, being trailed, on a trolley which gives inadequate support to the hull. Many trailers have just two small supports often minimally padded, sitting under the hull at this point. Mirrors being relatively wide do not have the benefit of a Buoyancy tank bulkead straddling the support and if the boat is used as family luggage trailer full of bicycles and camping paraphernalia, all the weight is carried on those two hull supports, and maybe added to by a web and ratchet.

These boats must have a properly fitted Cradle style of road trailor/launch trolley.

Multiple Splits in the ply floor are a sure sign of this kind of abuse and under the 1000 layers of paint they may not be immediately obvious.

[Rupert]

'Twas my son's Mirror, and yes, as the name gives away, she was used as a box trailer...
I do agree about the bermudan rig, but I doubt many have been speared by the rig tension of a new mast, as I doubt that many cruising Mirrors have been changed. I think that the powers that be in the class felt that if they were going to stay as a youth training class and not wither and die like all the other small boats of that vintage, something had to be done to stem the tide of the Feva. What the top end of the class has done has made no difference to the Mirror we own, except possibly make spars and sails for a gaff rig easier to come by on ebay.
It will be interesting to see where in the fleet the 1st gaff rigged boat came at the worlds.
Back on topic, I do remember that one of the masts I once had had a plastic capping piece that the shrouds etc went over. Very annoying, as when the mast was in storage once, it came off, never to be found, so making that mast useless.

[LarFinn]

My first boat was Mirror 4341, ("Weary Friar") and I so wish I still had her, her original cotton sails won me my first sailing trophy in the mid 80's. I could have brought her to Roadford - would have had to let someone borrow her though, - I definitely Finn sized now.

[roger]

My first boat was Mirror 4341, ("Weary Friar") and I so wish I still had her, her original cotton sails won me my first sailing trophy in the mid 80's. I could have brought her to Roadford - would have had to let someone borrow her though, - I definitely Finn sized now.

Now theres a coincidence mine was 4340.

[JimC]

I do seem to remember a Gull with gunter rig, this had a ring with three tangs on it to which the stays were shackled - rather like a conventional wooden mast.

It shouldn't have had! The Gull Class rules required loops in the ends of the shroud and forestay which hooked over the top of the mast...