National 12

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Matty1st
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:43 pm

National 12

Post by Matty1st »

Hey , I am really interested In sailing the national 12 and really wanting to go out to the open meetings etc , but there is only one problem I am very limited on cash :( It doesn't have to be great or even good but just sail able . IT would be fantastic if I could get one for free and it would be put to good use and it would be really appreciated.

Thanks for reading

Matt :D
Rupert
Posts: 6255
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Re: National 12

Post by Rupert »

If cash strapped, the best bet is to find someone to crew for - if you are lucky they will pay fuel to get places and buy the odd beer, too. Of course, it helps if you have experience, but enthusiasm and a willingness to learn will get you a long way.

In the great scheme of things, there is no such thing as a free boat - anything being given away will cost a fair amount to get to open meeting (ie not falling apart) standard.
Rupert
Matty1st
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: National 12

Post by Matty1st »

Hey , i have crewed for the past 4 years and I have recently been helming and I am willing to do repairs as I have too much spare time. Anything would be good as I will be only club racing and getting use to the boat and taking it to a few opens . I might be able to scrape
some cash together as am only 15 and can't get a job yet :( haha I wish I could get the free beers but to young unfortunately . So I will be happy with anything as I know it is a awesome class.
Thanks for your reply rupert :)

Matt
Stephen Hawkins
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:41 am
Location: The much maligned Swindon Town

Re: National 12

Post by Stephen Hawkins »

There are many types of National 12s.

They are grouped as Vintage (nailed clinker), Classic (generally glued clinker), Old (Four Planker, single skinned) and modern (cold molded, double skinned, modern plastic/carbon, etc).

You need to be sure what it is you want, and what it is you can handle. Do you have a regular crew? Will a Classic or Vintage boat fit the bill?

Vintage, Classic and Old boats can be picked up for a few hundred pounds. Free boats will always come with bills as they are generally incomplete or in need of rebuild they can also can have been plundered for spares, trailors and trolleys, etc. And in the end they can be more expensive than a cheap 'goer'.

£300 or £400 can get you a boat that can be used, has a trolley, and trailor and a cover with at least one set of sails - but it will still need work.

That is what you should be aiming for.

Be sure what you want and start saving.

I have 2. A Classic and a Vintage. both need work.
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"
Matty1st
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: National 12

Post by Matty1st »

Yeh I have a regular crew :) and I don't mind which type of nat 12 as I just want to get started into the class and work my way from there , also like I say I don't mind doing abit of work on the boat as I have loads of var USB , paint left from fixing my previous mirror .

And the national 12 s you say you have are they up for sale and how incomplete are they :)
Thanks
Matt
Matty1st
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: National 12

Post by Matty1st »

Also I see in ur post rite at the bottom it says the national 12 " planet " is up for grabs are you selli that ?? :)
Thanks
Matt
Stephen Hawkins
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:41 am
Location: The much maligned Swindon Town

Re: National 12

Post by Stephen Hawkins »

Planet is up for grabs.
And she would be complete. Plus lots of sails.
But she leaks a bit.
She needs to be stripped and painted really. Outer hull, and sealed up again.
She might be a bit too vintage for a youngster like yourself.
I would think that glued clinker or a 4 planker is probably a better bet.

Sparkle is not for sail, as I am enjoying sailing her too much.

Cheers
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"
Matty1st
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: National 12

Post by Matty1st »

Hey , I like the vintage boats am more old fashioned , I loved the old fashioned mirrors .
How much are you thinking , also I heard there's a vintage nat 12 race or summart what a few of my friends go to :)

So if you want to sell it how much as I will get saving :) also I don't mind if it lease I am sure I can fix it , it will give me a little project .
Thanks
Matt
Stephen Hawkins
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:41 am
Location: The much maligned Swindon Town

Re: National 12

Post by Stephen Hawkins »

If you have the proper support and you are sure its what you want, I would be prepared to sell it to you at a very reasonable price. It has wooden spars and cotton sails are available as well as some terylene ones. She is a real time capsule.
Steve
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"
angus
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 7:03 pm
Location: Aberuthven (just south of Perth)

Re: National 12

Post by angus »

Hi Matt
Have you looked at the NAtional 12 web site, you will find some useful information there.
If you are on a light budget I would be warey of a clinker built 12 either glued ply or traditional nailed as they tend to be an awful drain on cash just keeping them on the water.
You also tend to get a lot more for your money with 4 plankers as they are not so popular.
If you can I would get to a few N12 open meetings and speak to the people there you will find them very helpful and may be able to point you in the direction of a good boat.
N2153, N2969, Merlin Rocket 3484, Mini Sprint
Matty1st
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: National 12

Post by Matty1st »

Thanks for your reply, I will have a look around :) I have looked on the website and keeping a eye on it , thanks for ur advice :)
Obscured by clouds
Posts: 715
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: north Wales

Re: National 12

Post by Obscured by clouds »

Tony



MR 2404 Julia Dream
N18 276 Sibrwd [ongoing project]
Hirondelle catamaran Kalipse
[down to 3!]
Matty1st
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: National 12

Post by Matty1st »

Seems abit much for the work it needs . I think I will keep looking :)
Thanks fr the reply anyways

Matt
Stephen Hawkins
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:41 am
Location: The much maligned Swindon Town

Re: National 12

Post by Stephen Hawkins »

The example Tony has just given shows exactly the point I was trying to make.

There is no mention of a trolley, trailor, cover and the bouyancy bags are missing. And there is a great deal of repair and stripping to be carried out and the sails look very tired. And he has started the bidding at £175. And that is too expensive.

Even if the present owner has started the restoration and painted the ouside of the hull (i.e. he has already invested £80 in decent paint) this is a hole in which to poor money:

1. Second hand trailor/trolley, £200 minimum, if you are patient. Trolley only £50 or anything abandoned at your local club that can be salvaged.
2. New bouyancy bags - £40 each, makes £80 in my book.
3. Wood, depends how much you need - half sheet of marine ply - £80+
4. Assuming you used traditional varnish, 2 or 3 pots minimum, £50?
5. sundries - glue, epoxy, screws and the odd fitting - Another £50.
6. New cover to protect all you hard work £200.....
7. Fuel to go look at it or buy it.....not an insignificant cost.

We are now spending far more than the boat will ever be worth, once the restoration has been carried out to a high standard. And we have not even talked about sails. Or the issues with Cascamite and Aerolite glues going off.

You need a boat that has all those missing items present, is in good order, ie. sailable, and you want to be paying the sums I mentioned above. You will always find stuff to do.

I would take this boat on (but I already have too many) but I would not be happy paying anything very much for it. You only do this sort of thing for the love of it, with your eyes open. And I could spread the cost over the couple of years it would take me to refurbish it.

hey ho,

Steve H

Just my thoughts
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"
Michael Brigg
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: National 12

Post by Michael Brigg »

How much support are you getting from your chancellor??

...or are you going to finance this off a paper round / fruit picking / etc.

I started out with my brothers with a parental injection of £70 in 1973, for a Firefly. Sitting in a boat park with most of the paint missing and a broken top mast. Abandoned after a disastrous sail by the owner, we tracked them down and made an offer.

Between us we stripped the hull in and out, bleached out the grey and black wood, saved up for sails and a new topmast, running rigging etc.

Two refurbs (including a re-strip and revarnish) and a new deck later I sold the boat in 1999 for £500, as a well sorted boat with all the trimmings. If I hadn't inherited my older brothers Firefly I would still have this boat.

The total cost is immaterial. It was my entry into a love of sailing and boat maintenance that is stronger today than ever. If you like the boat you buy, then it is worth whatever you pay for it. The important thing is to buy the one that you really want to sail.

I am quite certain my fathers intention was that we should get a boat that we had to put some work and investment into. He was that kind of person, Didn't believe anyone should ever get a free lunch but ultimately when it came to supporting my sailing his pocket was long and deep enough. Hopefully you have a more permissive but similarly helpful support. Presumably someone is going to drive you to the open meetings.

It is the boat you love and like that will give you the most enjoyment, and that will bring out the best in your sailing.

Start saving , borrow , (steal perhaps if you're "allowed" to! ...False accounting works well. "Can I borrow /have a tenner for my school lunch" and keep the change. You must you have done this one! :twisted: )

Enjoy the journey.
Michael Brigg
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