A new forum

Please use this area for off topic conversations and banter
Michael Brigg
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Re: A new forum

Post by Michael Brigg » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:05 pm

David said:-
(nor is this forum peopled by hairy hell's angels type bikers... most are middle aged, white collar workers).
This is worth a look, if nothing else to be excrutiated by the searching descriptions of all of our worst behaviours.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/

Can you see yourself in any of these? Its a bit like thCadburies cream eggs advert... How do you like yours??
Michael Brigg

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neil
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Re: A new forum

Post by neil » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:18 pm

and of course, there is this classic
IC: K26
Harrier +: 2

Zenith's rebuild - www.pegasus18.com/zenith

Michael Brigg
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Re: A new forum

Post by Michael Brigg » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:24 pm

So Neil, Where's your teapot then?? :shock:

Respect!
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Re: A new forum

Post by DavidC » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:17 am

A little more than "30 years of bar banter". The tradition of banter between East Coast and South Coast goes back at least 130 years and so this is really a continuing historical tradition which should of course be preserved.

I suspect that it had existed for many decades before that with the fishermen visiting ports outside their home waters. Fishing is by its nature competitive (against each other and the elements) and the fine seamen in the fleets were the natural choice for the crack crews on skippers on the big racing yachts. There the banter and competition continued and so there is the strong point of history. It is an essential part of the story of yacht racing!

Obviously being nice ant not want to upset people I will not mention the score so far other than never mind D :twisted: :D :twisted: :lol: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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Re: A new forum

Post by Rupert » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:41 am

I was more thinking of 30 years on a personal level!
You are quite right about the rivalry, though I suspect much of it wasn't as tongue in cheek as it is now.
Maybe David H and C should do a 2 points of view article for DSM or Classic Boat giving the history, points of view, achievements and complaints of each side.
Rupert

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Re: A new forum

Post by davidh » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:10 am

Rupert,

now that is a damn good idea..... I like it!

Would you believe that I'm working on something along those lines already - the working title for which is 'Tales of two riverbanks'.

(Now I am sure to get a clip around the ear somewhere about now from AG.... so I will be circumspect in what I say but............)

As sailing developed in the 1950s and 1960s, one of the main centres for dinghy development(Note Dave C I make clear that it is only one... there were others, some even as far away as Exmouth and Br-gh-li-se-) was Hamble. Hamble River was then a sailing club that would be positioned in today's premier league - they had class starts for Merlins, 12s, gp14s, FDs and was home to the likes of John Oakley, Tim Hockin, David Robinson etc etc.

A hefty spit in a strong westerly wind across the river was Warsash.....they had a few open meetings but were very much the junior partner in what happened on the river. If you raced at Hamble, then that meant Hamble river SC.

But now the boot is firmly on the other foot. Warsash is a fine, forward thinking club that hosts many top open meeting and National Championships, has a strong and growing reputation for the strength of its club racing and from a dinghy viewpoint is the 'place to be'.

Any east v south coast banter is nothing compared to the long running verbals that exist between the two riverbanks which started in school; Hamble lads went to Hamble, warsash lads went to Brookfield... the interschool hockey game could be a bloodbath at times (we had a player that could chop in under the ball, bringing it up into the other players face - he went on to be an OK sailor of note!!)

So Rupert, thanks for the tip, I'll put my thinking cap on for that!

D
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Re: A new forum

Post by Ancient Geek » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:56 am

Both the David's are good eggs and men of infinite good intent and honout the banter is very amusing if argued spuriously from time to time.
Simples.

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Re: A new forum

Post by davidh » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:09 pm

well I know that I'm a good egg, have got the little lion stamped on my bottom to prove it!!

No so sure about that other Dave though.....(don't the chickens from the east lay their eggs sideways????)

Besides, I have the advantage on you all having seen Dave C's latest diatribe on various issues (read all about this in the june issue of DSM, out 1st week may) This time it really is a case of 'the big bad bully boy of brighlingsea wot done it'!!!!!!!

D (the good egg)
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Re: A new forum

Post by Ed » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:13 pm

Well I can certainly see bits of myself in many of those sketches Michael and I guess it goes to show there is no such thing as an 'ordinary' member as we are all made up of bits of each of the characteristics.

Very astute, but my mind boggles at the time needed on-forum to gain that kind of experience and insight. I already think that I spend more time on forums than I should (not just this one) and really try and limit myself.

This thread is interesting in a way.....and I am glad that we now have a 'banter' section to amuse ourselves in. But I do still have a 'niggle' or two about it and the direction the forum has taken over the last few months. I am not sure it is right yet. I do suspect that I will suggest to the other moderators that we put a 'time-delete' on all posts though, with all 'banter' being deleted after 30 days. It is after all 'banter' and should be ephemeral.

I guess reading those sketches has really made me think a little about what we are trying to do with this Forum and how best to get there.

I know I have said this before....so please bear with me.

But the CVRDA is made up of mainly two things: A bunch of people who want to sail classic dinghies together....and a Forum for a bunch of people who want to talk about classic dinghies.

BUT, the Forum is here to support the sailors! We don't sail, to give content for us to chat with on the Forum.

It does worry me that the connection and interaction between these two groups could break down to the detriment of both.

I do also feel that we have lost faith in some of the original aims of the association (and forum) and this could start to harm us if we are not careful.

What do I mean?

Well, the CVRDA started out with the intention of being as all-inclusive as it possibly could be and a mission to get classic boats on the water. Well who owns those boats (I would love to be able to draw them or provide better descriptions):

1) Sailing Newbies:
It is a fact that many newbies to sailing come into it with old cvrda boats - because they are wood....because the are cheap...because they are uncompetative. Our club boat-parks are full of them and we see the families come down once or twice a year - just for the fun of it. We used to find those families and help and support them and introduce them to racing (many for the first time).

2) Retired and Cruisers:
Another section of classic boat ownership are retired or retiring folk, looking for some fun in the boats they remember from their youth....or just wanting to do some cruising (think of the number of Tideways we used to get). They love the boats, but are just not interested in much of the hussle-bustle that surrounds racing. We used to hold their hands and put on fun-races and cruises and go on those....and then they came and raced with us.

3) Sailing Kids - First Boats:
Some kids save up to get their first boat....and buy what they can afford...which just happens to be CVRDA-fodder. They then re-build and learn and sail their boats. We used to give them boats, re-build there boats, take them crewing, support in every way we could.

4) Wood-workers and Project-hunters:
Never sailed, but saw this lovely old boat....and wants to bring it back to life, but no real idea on what they have, or how to use it...or sail it....let alone race in it. (Seems to me they nearly always want to re-build Jollyboats....but that is another story). Well I normally took them for a pint of bear and started slowly...."Now the thing is...."

5) Us:
Well there are many types, but most have sailed all our lives - an interest in classic boats - happy to race and confident enough to call for water or scream on the Forum if someone is pinching our wind.

I don't think we make as much effort to cater for these classic-dinghy owners as we used to and more to the point. I think the Forum is sometimes an un-friendly place for most of those other types.

I think the CVRDA was about getting as many people sailing classic dinghies as possible....and the Forum was there to support that aim.
Not to have the air of a gentlemen's club thick with segar smoke and the squweek of our fat arses on the leather seats, whilst we clink our snifters telling stories and teasing each other about what regiment or river we spent our youth in.

This Forum is our club-house. In the club-house, after a few beers, in the cuddy, we may let our hair down. But if we have visitors and the mayor is in, we behave differently. On a Forum, you don't have that choice - the mayor is always here. What we say here reflects on all of us and our association - for as long as we keep the archives open.

My question is: Does the Banter section....or this kind of banter in general, encourage the majority of classic dinghy owners to join us sailing? I fear that sometimes it does the reverse.

In the last year I have seen on the forum:

The suggestion that the Forum is a 'good' place to hang out due to the lack of youth. Translate: F-off most of type 1 and all type 3

The suggestion that if you are not trying 100% to win a race - you shouldn't be in it. Translate: F-off type 1,2 & 4

The complete hi-jacking of reasonable questions from CVRDA newbies. Translate: F-off type 1-4

A general air of 'know-it-all' ( I know I am the worst!! :cry: ) giving a presumption of 'it must be done like this' Translate F-off 1-5

I must get back to work.....but

please consider: If your post is not supporting getting classic boats on the water, then it should only be in the 'banter' section.

And when we are in the banter section - the requirements for how we behave are still in force and when we are impressing each other with our eloquence......consider - does this encourage others to post?

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
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Re: A new forum

Post by Ed » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:12 pm

Jeez,

I must get back to work....

but still thinking about this and don't seem to be able to really get a handle on what I think the problem is.....other than showing my unerring ability to alienate people.

But....when we started the CVRDA it was very important that it was all about the BOATS. Not the people!

When racing, crews could change, but the 'boats' kept their racing results.

When we gave results - we named the 'boat' not the crew. Early trophies don't even have crew names on them.

We were trying to put 'boats' on the water, encouraging people to take out the 'boats' and admire them doing what they do - Race! Some of us brought more than one boat and then found crews to sail them (Thornhill paid rupe to get all his collection on the water for his regatta). It wasn't about us and our mates trying to find the 'best' 'fastest' 'best handicaped' boat so that we could go and win races.

Recently, we have all started to think about the 'people'.....which is a perfectly honourable good and required thing.....but it wasn't what the CVRDA was originally about.

eib
Ed Bremner
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Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

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Re: A new forum

Post by davidh » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:26 pm

Ed,

I think you are worrying too much! The CVRDA looks to me to be in robust and ruddy health and if Whitefriars is anything to go by, then the Association is set fair to enjoy the celebration of the big 10th birthday.

Of course it has changed and yes, the recent debates have been searching, but this surely is a sign of how good things are, rather than the reverse.

What I think is more important is that you recognise just what a service the CVRDA does do for the wider sport of dinghy sailing. It gives a voice on some of the issues that would otherwise not get heard.... and that is important!

Think along those lines and all of a sudden the CVRDA looks very different. Just think where we'd all be without it!!!

D
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Re: A new forum

Post by Rupert » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:49 pm

Hi Ed,
I'm not sure the picture is as bleak or the divide between forum and sailing as wide as you think in your dark moments!
At the 1st meeting of the year, we had 3 people out for the 1st time. One, Bert, had just found the cvrda (via Y&Y, I think) and was getting into sailing a classic IC for the 1st time. He fits a couple of your catagories!

Nigel and Mr Brigg are longer term forumites, and it was good to meet them at last! They also fit a couple of your catagories.

Others at the meeting were juniors. Matt owns my old Skol Moth and is very keen on the old boat stuff, especially if it meens getting wet! Tom is less into it, but was brave enough to take the Beachcomber out at the weekend in no wind and be lapped!

Their dad, John, now owns a silly number of classic boats, and contrubutes to the forum a fair amount, but has only, due to time constraints, made it to a couple of meetings.

It seems to me that without the encouragement of the forum, some wouldn't have come to play, and if they had felt that the forum was only for those who were already involved in the sailing, they wouldn't have joined the forum, and so wouldn't have joined in with the sailing.

David H, bless his cotton socks, also started with the forum side of things, but is now sailing with us.

Chris Barlow, on the other hand, has come to every meeting since Noah started it all, but has forgotten how to turn his computer on!

Hopefully, thanks to Neil, the banter can now be kept at least partially seperate, so that the threads in the other sections remain unsullied and easy for people to find out how to fix the widget on the thingymebob. I think the idea of deleteing banter threads if they've not been replied to after x amount of time is a good one. Stops old ground being raked over!

So, all in all, while it could be better, I think the forum and the sailing do feed off each other pretty well. As someone who spends far too much time posting here, I would love to see more from the other cvrda original people on the site, but I understand that many of you are able to control your typing fingers (I have 2!), unlike me. I'd also like to see more of the people I only know through postings with boats at a meeting or 2! But for those who live in Aus, the USA or even Denmark, it might be tricky!
Rupert

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Re: A new forum

Post by Garry R » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:31 pm

To be fair to Chris B he has to spend much of his time mucking out the animals on the ark now that Noah is no longer the Master of Iska!! He is too busy sourcing Camphor wood and converting cubits to millimetres in his spare time. I have heard on the grapevine that when landing on Arafat there was a great hole gouged in the hull. God is trying to convince him that a good dose of epoxy will do the trick but Chris, ever the traditionalist, is busy stuffing the lands with dried camel dung and the guano from the dodo which he saved over 1000 years ago as "you never know when it might come in useful". Mrs Chris is furiously knitting a set of cotton sails for the moment when climate change floods the Frome Valley as Chris insists that he will definitely not use dacron or Kevlar to get the old ark moving again. There is little doubt he has the patience of Job as he wonders where his ass's jawbone has gone that he was using to knock in a few rivets and roves last week but has an uncomfortable feeling about it all since Samson popped into the workshop the previous Tuesday. However he was never one to judge.

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Re: A new forum

Post by davidh » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:56 pm

was that the same Samson who offered to become the post?

D
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Re: A new forum

Post by Ed » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:02 pm

Does that mean that I am Noah?

Still pleased that Briggs had me down as only 48 years old.

he should know.

eib
Ed Bremner
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IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
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