Rudder shape ?
Re: Rudder shape ?
Matt,
Birds, Bats and insects etc, (I was hoping to put teradactill, but I could not spell it), have had wings since the year dot, but I am sure someone had the Patent for the "Spitfires" elliptical wings (struggled with elliptical has well, hope its correct).
Birds, Bats and insects etc, (I was hoping to put teradactill, but I could not spell it), have had wings since the year dot, but I am sure someone had the Patent for the "Spitfires" elliptical wings (struggled with elliptical has well, hope its correct).
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Re: Rudder shape ?
Is this being built by you or professionally?trebor wrote:I am going to try Tubercules, combined with a Chord.
I hope I will not be breaching someones patent ?
If I'm honest, from what I've read about turbocles, they seem to make no difference to not much of a noticeable advantage when used in aerospace applications, but it is certainly an interesting experiment (although adding to the complexity of the build somewhat).
Let me know how you get on, it'll be interesting to see the results....
Cheers,
Max
AC 298 TimeWarp
Cherub 2627 - Sgt Murphy (nee Last Amber Dragon)
Farr 3.7 (slowly progressing build)
National 12 3337
Cherub 2627 - Sgt Murphy (nee Last Amber Dragon)
Farr 3.7 (slowly progressing build)
National 12 3337
Re: Rudder shape ?
Toby Barsley-Dale, has a tubercules rudder on his Hornet. He rates it and he seems to go pretty quick as well. I am sure he would be happy to give his opinion.
He will probably try to sell you one as well as he has a vested interest.
He will probably try to sell you one as well as he has a vested interest.
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353
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Re: Rudder shape ?
Yes, as I have heard....roger wrote:Toby Barsley-Dale, has a tubercules rudder on his Hornet. He rates it and he seems to go pretty quick as well. I am sure he would be happy to give his opinion.
He will probably try to sell you one as well as he has a vested interest.
I think Steve Goacher had one built for his AC, but I think he said there was no noticeable difference....
Either way, at least it's another route of development, something quite apart from conventional rudder shapes, to say the least.... Almost reminds me of Alan Powell's experimental sails in his IC:
http://www.intcanoe.org/forum2/viewtopi ... c529#p6185
AC 298 TimeWarp
Cherub 2627 - Sgt Murphy (nee Last Amber Dragon)
Farr 3.7 (slowly progressing build)
National 12 3337
Cherub 2627 - Sgt Murphy (nee Last Amber Dragon)
Farr 3.7 (slowly progressing build)
National 12 3337
Re: Rudder shape ?
Rough sketch of my design idea.
http://s1149.photobucket.com/user/aquab ... .jpeg.html
http://s1149.photobucket.com/user/aquab ... .jpeg.html
Re: Rudder shape ?
I seem to recall that Mr. Mitchell based his Spitfire wing design on that of a seagull.
interesting to work through the reasoning behind a design - what is different and how does that change how it will perform - but sometimes people get inspiration to try something because I just feels right.
have you thought about inverting the curved edges of the tubercules so they become winglets blended in to the main blade so there are no sharp angles?
interesting to work through the reasoning behind a design - what is different and how does that change how it will perform - but sometimes people get inspiration to try something because I just feels right.
have you thought about inverting the curved edges of the tubercules so they become winglets blended in to the main blade so there are no sharp angles?
Re: Rudder shape ?
My understanding was that the Spitfire wing planform was principally governed by the desire to fit 4 guns in a thin wing.
Re: Rudder shape ?
Max, I will be building it myself.
Re: Rudder shape ?
Hi Jim,
perhaps I am recalling a bit of poetic licence in "First of the Few" - I do remember a scene with Leslie Howard staring wistfully up at the soaring gulls.
Here is one bit of Mitchell advice where it may be appropriate to substitute "dinghy" for "aeroplane":
If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls.
perhaps I am recalling a bit of poetic licence in "First of the Few" - I do remember a scene with Leslie Howard staring wistfully up at the soaring gulls.
Here is one bit of Mitchell advice where it may be appropriate to substitute "dinghy" for "aeroplane":
If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls.
Re: Rudder shape ?
Nigel,
Did they use Balls as a swear word when Mitchell was alive ?
Jim,
I think originally the wings were designed for a pair of Cannon, at the eleventh hour it was changed to four Brownings per wing.
Did they use Balls as a swear word when Mitchell was alive ?
Jim,
I think originally the wings were designed for a pair of Cannon, at the eleventh hour it was changed to four Brownings per wing.
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Re: Rudder shape ?
Some great clips from that movie in this modern music video:Nigel wrote:Hi Jim,
perhaps I am recalling a bit of poetic licence in "First of the Few" - I do remember a scene with Leslie Howard staring wistfully up at the soaring gulls.
Here is one bit of Mitchell advice where it may be appropriate to substitute "dinghy" for "aeroplane":
If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u4Md_aXVJE
Public Service Broadcasting are an interesting band.. they edit archive film, and then put music to it... lots of stuff about steam trains as well as vintage planes..
Matt
Int Moth K2992
Int Moth K2992
Re: Rudder shape ?
Nice one Matt.
Regarding Seagulls and wing shape,
Quote, Mitchell to Beverly Shenstone,
" I don't give a b----R wether it's elliptical or not, so long as it covers the guns"
Regarding Seagulls and wing shape,
Quote, Mitchell to Beverly Shenstone,
" I don't give a b----R wether it's elliptical or not, so long as it covers the guns"
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Re: Rudder shape ?
Well I'm certainly interested in the results. I look forward to seeing how it ends up....!trebor wrote:Max, I will be building it myself.
Cheers,
Max
AC 298 TimeWarp
Cherub 2627 - Sgt Murphy (nee Last Amber Dragon)
Farr 3.7 (slowly progressing build)
National 12 3337
Cherub 2627 - Sgt Murphy (nee Last Amber Dragon)
Farr 3.7 (slowly progressing build)
National 12 3337
Re: Rudder shape ?
Max,
Me too.
I cannot test Rudder scientifically, but I can tell if it is worse than original.
If your boat gives off a good Rooster tail, and it disappears after fitting new Rudder blade, obviously you have removed some drag.
I hope to reduce surface area by about 30%.
Me too.
I cannot test Rudder scientifically, but I can tell if it is worse than original.
If your boat gives off a good Rooster tail, and it disappears after fitting new Rudder blade, obviously you have removed some drag.
I hope to reduce surface area by about 30%.
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- Location: Devon
Re: Rudder shape ?
If it gives off a Rooster tale you have increased the drag.