Firefly MKII Centreboard Case
If by 2 pieces you mean the hog on the inside and the keel on the outside with the hull sandwiched between them, then yes, that is how it is constructed. You'll need to take the keel off with the boat upside down. You'll find hundreds of rotten brass screws, too. When rebuilding, it is worth putting as few back as possible - with good glues they are just a point for rot to start.
Rupert
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highburyal
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:12 pm
- Location: Forest of Dean
What a fantastic thread
Thanks to everybody who has contributed, this thread has turned into a goldmine of advice, will be v useful when time comes to work on J17. Al
I assume that the slot that you show with the picture that has the text on it is taken from inside the boat and is the centreboard slot or is this from between the transom and centreboard slot. The veneer which you have chipped away looks as if you are back to pretty good stuff and the outer layers need to be trimmed at right angles to the grain so that you can glue your new veneers into place. Chris B told me that it is a good idea to stagger the inside veneers ie on the iside of the hull the joint should be in a different line to that on the outside as this will be stronger. He recommended an inch of overlap at least for glueing. Actually your hull looks in good nick and you have got on well with the sanding. The close up pictures make the rot /crumbly stuff look a great deal worse than it is. Once you get the Stanley knife out and square up the veneers it will look so much better. I have a hole about 15" x 4.5" which I am trying to fill!! I don't think you will have a lot of difficulty making the hull good again.
The veneers on the outside run horizontally along the boat and diaganally in side the boat so thats good.
I was thinking of starting my repairs on the outside of the hull - this will mean I can put a complete 1 metre or so length of veneer along either side which should look neat and tidy. I will then replace a large section of the hog which should give me a good strength for repairing the inner hull and maintain a good shape.
Once I turn the boat over i can then attatch maybe 10 small new veneers cut to a 45 degree angle to match the original. Once this is complete I can then replace the inside hog peice which should then leave my lovely new hull free from rot and roughly the same shape as it was originally.
All sounds good in theory but Im to start tonight and through the weekend so hopefully will have some pics.
Can anyone recommend a good online place to order some veneer and also wood for the hog? I have mailed Ray Smith to see about a new case too.
Cheers
I was thinking of starting my repairs on the outside of the hull - this will mean I can put a complete 1 metre or so length of veneer along either side which should look neat and tidy. I will then replace a large section of the hog which should give me a good strength for repairing the inner hull and maintain a good shape.
Once I turn the boat over i can then attatch maybe 10 small new veneers cut to a 45 degree angle to match the original. Once this is complete I can then replace the inside hog peice which should then leave my lovely new hull free from rot and roughly the same shape as it was originally.
All sounds good in theory but Im to start tonight and through the weekend so hopefully will have some pics.
Can anyone recommend a good online place to order some veneer and also wood for the hog? I have mailed Ray Smith to see about a new case too.
Cheers
Try Robbins Timber, they will be able to help. They do all sorts of timbers, veneers, paints, resins etc,etc a bit of a boat builders Aladdins cave really 
http://www.robbins.co.uk
http://www.robbins.co.uk
Yeah. Robbins is where I buy my Agba veneer from.
Only thing as I said above....is that sometimes they seem to get their Agba mixed up with their Kyaha. Both mahogany construction veneers, but the Agba is more golden and Kyaha more dk brown. I suspect the Kyaha is slightly superior but heavier. Of course for the Firefly, you want the agba so that it blends in properly.
to be honest.......you would do best to hand-pick the leaf....that is presuming that they have it in stock....and also delivering it could be a pain, I don't really think it is something you can post, unless you ask them to cut it to 100cm lengths or something. You can normally just roll a full leaf, but it ends up about 3-4ft in diameter. In the past they would only sell it by the full leaf....although it may well be that they will now cut if for you....not sure.
But if at all possible.....I would go and choose and collect it yourself, having made sure first that they do have it in stock.
If you can't do this...I 'may' be able to pop in their later this month. I could possibly choose it whilst on phone to you and cut if needed if you wanted and get them to post in that form, if you told me what longest length was you needed.
But first you need to make sure they have it in stock. They have not always stocked the Agba....and don't think they can always get it...so give a ring.
cheers
eib
Only thing as I said above....is that sometimes they seem to get their Agba mixed up with their Kyaha. Both mahogany construction veneers, but the Agba is more golden and Kyaha more dk brown. I suspect the Kyaha is slightly superior but heavier. Of course for the Firefly, you want the agba so that it blends in properly.
to be honest.......you would do best to hand-pick the leaf....that is presuming that they have it in stock....and also delivering it could be a pain, I don't really think it is something you can post, unless you ask them to cut it to 100cm lengths or something. You can normally just roll a full leaf, but it ends up about 3-4ft in diameter. In the past they would only sell it by the full leaf....although it may well be that they will now cut if for you....not sure.
But if at all possible.....I would go and choose and collect it yourself, having made sure first that they do have it in stock.
If you can't do this...I 'may' be able to pop in their later this month. I could possibly choose it whilst on phone to you and cut if needed if you wanted and get them to post in that form, if you told me what longest length was you needed.
But first you need to make sure they have it in stock. They have not always stocked the Agba....and don't think they can always get it...so give a ring.
cheers
eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
Thanks for the links and advice guys,
Im based in North Wales by Wrexham, so cant really call in. Does anyone know of anywhere nearer to me that may do some?
I think I will draw a line either side of the centreboard case about an inch outside each of the holes where the self bailers are. This would mean I would need 6 strips of veneer that were roughly 1.5 m in length and maybe 3-4inches wide. Once fitted I can cut out new holes for the selfbailers.
Cheers
Im based in North Wales by Wrexham, so cant really call in. Does anyone know of anywhere nearer to me that may do some?
I think I will draw a line either side of the centreboard case about an inch outside each of the holes where the self bailers are. This would mean I would need 6 strips of veneer that were roughly 1.5 m in length and maybe 3-4inches wide. Once fitted I can cut out new holes for the selfbailers.
Cheers
I have updated my site with the latest pics where Ive removed more rot and removed a section of the outer veneer. I went nuts with a chisel 
Can you folks take a look, Am I on the right track?
I know I go on a bit but its my first ever boat repair and I cant get it wrong
http://www.axmi49.dsl.pipex.com/
Can you folks take a look, Am I on the right track?
I know I go on a bit but its my first ever boat repair and I cant get it wrong
http://www.axmi49.dsl.pipex.com/
You look absolutely on the right track.
Interesting to note that one of your photos shows you already have a repair to an outer veneer that looks like it was just that with little or no damage to inner layer.
You look like you are doing a fine job. You must be beginning to see that there is nothing to difficult in repairing wood boats...and that working on Fairey boats is a complete doddle.
The only hard bit really is getting your perfect shaped bit of veneer to fit once you have the glue in place. It fits dry of course....but never does once you have the glue down....and then you have to work out how to keep it flat. But hey.... I will leave that to another posting.
Don't worry about it having to be perfect. It never is...and you will always have bits that annoy cos there not quite right, but no-one else ever notices and if they do, you can always just say "Only Allah is perfect"......works for me!
cheers
eib
Interesting to note that one of your photos shows you already have a repair to an outer veneer that looks like it was just that with little or no damage to inner layer.
You look like you are doing a fine job. You must be beginning to see that there is nothing to difficult in repairing wood boats...and that working on Fairey boats is a complete doddle.
The only hard bit really is getting your perfect shaped bit of veneer to fit once you have the glue in place. It fits dry of course....but never does once you have the glue down....and then you have to work out how to keep it flat. But hey.... I will leave that to another posting.
Don't worry about it having to be perfect. It never is...and you will always have bits that annoy cos there not quite right, but no-one else ever notices and if they do, you can always just say "Only Allah is perfect"......works for me!
cheers
eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
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Michael Brigg
- Posts: 1663
- Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
- Location: Gosport, UK
Only Allah indeed is perfect but at the risk of incurring a fatwah there are some other rather perfectly formed sinful objects also to be found on the internet.
Gozzy you did say you are at risk of becoming a rocking dribbling mute if the restoration goes pear shaped. Well if you must dribble then after all that hot moulded ply and rubbing down I thought it might be nice to have some light relief. If you have an urge to salivate then take a peep at this.
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F125987
O.K. so this isn't a sailing boat but is this what that Flying Dutchman was trying to acheive with the steam engine. (Now that sounds really unfeasible but if you want it, you can find it, on the internet on this very site!)
http://www.soton.ac.uk/~jrc
Thank you to jonathan for that little gem! Now that definately is a better way to win a gold medal than up-ending it in a garden in Chelsea!
I'm sure you'll agree Ed that both of thes would do a good job as a coach's launch or committee/support boat.
Enjoy.
Gozzy you did say you are at risk of becoming a rocking dribbling mute if the restoration goes pear shaped. Well if you must dribble then after all that hot moulded ply and rubbing down I thought it might be nice to have some light relief. If you have an urge to salivate then take a peep at this.
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F125987
O.K. so this isn't a sailing boat but is this what that Flying Dutchman was trying to acheive with the steam engine. (Now that sounds really unfeasible but if you want it, you can find it, on the internet on this very site!)
http://www.soton.ac.uk/~jrc
Thank you to jonathan for that little gem! Now that definately is a better way to win a gold medal than up-ending it in a garden in Chelsea!
I'm sure you'll agree Ed that both of thes would do a good job as a coach's launch or committee/support boat.
Enjoy.
Michael Brigg
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Michael Brigg
- Posts: 1663
- Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
- Location: Gosport, UK
Hi Gozzy,
Just taking a furthur look at your stripped out hull. I was alarmed by the appearance of some of the wood until I realized I was looking through a "window" cut in the bottom of the boat and was actually admiring the garage wall on the other side!
Enough of that however;
That wooden strut across the back of the boat between the side seat supports;... is it part of the original, fitted as an attatchment for the toestraps?
Apart from the weight and "trip-up" factor I would be concerned (once its no longer required for bracing the hull) beacause it is not only not an original feature of the design but also rather clutters the helms cockpit. it would obstruct the scope available for bucket bailing (or scoop for that matter) in the event of a capsize, and more importantly I suspect it might contravene Rule11 (miscellaneous) Para (c) part v which states:
"The following are not permitted:....
v.) Fixed struts or toe strap bars between a line 2070mm forward of the transom and a line 900mm forward of the transom."
I would suggest you check these measurments if you intend to keep the strut.
The forward strut is hoever prfectly legal and most fireflies which race regularly have some sort of similar arrangement, although I believe it is not legal to use them as an anchorage point for the toestraps.
You will note from this that I am sure you will be able to finish the job!.
Regards
Just taking a furthur look at your stripped out hull. I was alarmed by the appearance of some of the wood until I realized I was looking through a "window" cut in the bottom of the boat and was actually admiring the garage wall on the other side!
Enough of that however;
That wooden strut across the back of the boat between the side seat supports;... is it part of the original, fitted as an attatchment for the toestraps?
Apart from the weight and "trip-up" factor I would be concerned (once its no longer required for bracing the hull) beacause it is not only not an original feature of the design but also rather clutters the helms cockpit. it would obstruct the scope available for bucket bailing (or scoop for that matter) in the event of a capsize, and more importantly I suspect it might contravene Rule11 (miscellaneous) Para (c) part v which states:
"The following are not permitted:....
v.) Fixed struts or toe strap bars between a line 2070mm forward of the transom and a line 900mm forward of the transom."
I would suggest you check these measurments if you intend to keep the strut.
The forward strut is hoever prfectly legal and most fireflies which race regularly have some sort of similar arrangement, although I believe it is not legal to use them as an anchorage point for the toestraps.
You will note from this that I am sure you will be able to finish the job!.
Regards
Michael Brigg
Hi Michael
I had no idea about that part not being legal - it is a good brace for now though. My main sheet was a pain in the "beep" last year always getting tangled round it.
I am looking to place an order with Robbins tomorrow - could you tell me which wood I need please?
From what I can gather I need agba venners 1.5mm thick?
What types of wood are needed to do the centreboard casing?
What type of wood is needed for the hog?
I have been speaking to Ray Smith but forgot to ask him earlier and don't like to pester him too much.
Thanks
I had no idea about that part not being legal - it is a good brace for now though. My main sheet was a pain in the "beep" last year always getting tangled round it.
I am looking to place an order with Robbins tomorrow - could you tell me which wood I need please?
From what I can gather I need agba venners 1.5mm thick?
What types of wood are needed to do the centreboard casing?
What type of wood is needed for the hog?
I have been speaking to Ray Smith but forgot to ask him earlier and don't like to pester him too much.
Thanks
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Michael Brigg
- Posts: 1663
- Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
- Location: Gosport, UK
I don't know anything about veneers, Ed's your man for that I think. As far as the Hog is concerned I would think its probably specified in the class rules
Here:-
http://www.fireflysailing.co.uk/ClassRulesFirefly.pdf
The whole point of this kind of site is that it allows us to pester eachother with or for information so I would go staight to the top and ask the experts.
I'm not certain about the strut, you might need to check that with a measurer.
Regards again.
Here:-
http://www.fireflysailing.co.uk/ClassRulesFirefly.pdf
The whole point of this kind of site is that it allows us to pester eachother with or for information so I would go staight to the top and ask the experts.
I'm not certain about the strut, you might need to check that with a measurer.
Regards again.
Michael Brigg
I couldn't get this to work but type in Firefly class rules into Google and then open up the pdf file. The only dimension I can see about the hog is that it looks as if it should be 100mm wide but no mention of thickness. I can attempt a measure for you tonight if that helps. I have just ordered from Robbins - Elite ply for the decks and a length of mahogany for the keel - the dimensions of the keel are there ok as presumably it affects the external profile.