Firefly Hastings, 1066 and all that...

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Michael4
Posts: 504
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:25 pm
Location: West Sussex

Firefly Hastings, 1066 and all that...

Post by Michael4 »

Time for a few questions...

The jib halyard. This has been changed to run down the mast, need to change it back.

ImageDSC01203 by dralowid, on Flickr

The bow pulley and tensioning rack are still under the foredeck but where would the cleat be sighted?

ImageDSC01206 by dralowid, on Flickr

On the edge of the coaming where the bit of masking tape is?

There are few 'witness marks' and screw holes in this area on both sides...would be this where the jamming cleats for barber haulers would be? (Didn't they have them at some stage?)

This tube bailer seems more or less complete.

ImageDSC01204 by dralowid, on Flickr

The other is missing the sliding tube and has a bung in it. I know they don't have a great reputation but they make a good conversation piece

On closer inspection the boom has been painted gold over aluminium and is the same section as the mast. Here are some pics of the ends. Is it Reynolds or Proctor?

ImageDSC01213 by dralowid, on Flickr
ImageDSC01214 by dralowid, on Flickr

At the spreader level the shrouds are connected by a stiff wire that forms a forward facing 'D' when rigged. I suppose to help the jib come about. I don't remember seeing such a thing before.

ImageDSC01210 by dralowid, on Flickr

Need to think about how to go about this, would like to avoid new wood. I haven't managed to stick the screwdriver though anything yet so there is hope...

ImageDSC01207 by dralowid, on Flickr

But there is some way to go... she won't match her neighbour, but that is hardly the point.

ImageDSC01209 by dralowid, on Flickr

Any suggestions or comments welcome!

Michael
Tideway 206
11+
Sold the 'Something bigger and plastic', it never got used.
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Ed
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Re: Firefly Hastings, 1066 and all that...

Post by Ed »

Will reply later with more if not already covered by others.

but looks fine to me.

Small areas of rot damage can often be handled with Eposeal or CPES.

I would just strip all the varnish off and then assess what you want to do, but looks like it might not need to be much.

Personally, I would get new sails and bring in the sheeting point off the decks onto the thwart. And get an ali plate rather than the steel. But that is just me.

You might also want to think whether you will sail it single or double-handed most, cos this 'can' make a bit if difference to layout of fittings.

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
Michael4
Posts: 504
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:25 pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: Firefly Hastings, 1066 and all that...

Post by Michael4 »

Curiously it came with an aluminium plate that is nearly straight. Sails 'feel' quite new, I'd say less than ten years, their windows are still flexible and quite clear. Can't find a date.

I forgot to ask...I hope a heat gun won't melt Fairey's glue if used sensibly?

I'm planning to sail it mostly singlehanded.

Michael
Tideway 206
11+
Sold the 'Something bigger and plastic', it never got used.
Rupert
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Re: Firefly Hastings, 1066 and all that...

Post by Rupert »

Nothing melts Fairey glue!

Will take a better look on a proper computer in a day or two,

Rupert
Rupert
Michael Brigg
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Re: Firefly Hastings, 1066 and all that...

Post by Michael Brigg »

Hi Michael,

Lots of straightforward stuff to answer here…

Ans 1.) The Halyard rack would have cleats on the underside of the diagonal beam about level with the shroud, and the forward one level with the mast. The halyard wire would usually have a rope tail spliced on, to help make it easier to thread through theforward pulley. When the sail is fully hoisted you need enough wire pulled through to make turn or two round the cleats, coming back first to the rear cleat then around the forwad one and back and forth a few times until you reach the rope til which you can now use to turn off on the rear cleat.

The position of the rear cleat should allow you to pull the wire over to the rack, without coming out from under the shelter of the deck.

The squared off shape of a Mark 1B deck would not llow this and so only really works if the 1B deck has a fixed mast.

If (as you have here) it is a rotating (Reynolds) mast, it must be Mark1 shaping.

Ans 2.) The tape (and screw holes) mark the original position for the tubular cleats for your centre plate. I think it is also a much better position.

Ans 3.) The tubuler bailers as you say are rubbish, but interesting and if you don’t intend heavy weather or sea sailing, might suffice and are a conversation piece, though usually because you are complaining bout how rubbish they are!

Keep them for the look, but consider asking for dispensation to have them “grandfathered” (ie sealed up when racing) and fit a decent pair of super suckers. (There is no longer a rule specifying where they must be fitted.)

It is likely the boat will leak and you will be glad of low speed bailers.

Ans 4.) Yes, its definitely a Reynolds boom.

Ans 5.) Yes the wire is to stop the jib leach getting torn or frayed by the diamond spreader. Remember on reaches the rotating mast will mean the leeward spreader goes forward. And will be more likely to foul the jib.

Ans 6.) strip off all the old varnish, and use a triangular scraper with enough force to remove a very thin layer of wood to refresh the surface. You can get Dichloromethane if you hunt around the web (or even on eby) which softens the varnish enough to make this quite easy.

Get a high spec (ie smooth grit) old fashioned oil stone sharpener (about £20 on ebay if you are patient and not fussy) which will keep your tool shrp as a razor if you sharpen every 50 scrapes or so (worth sharpening 2-3 triangular tools at a time)

Example:-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Green-Oil-Wat ... 3f47a76d3a

The investment is well worth it for the improvement in the finish.

I defiantly would not use a hot air gun for varnish. Even when carefully used they take all the life and depth out of a varnish finish, and to bring the wood back to life you need to scrape or sand back further than if you had used a scraper in the first place.

With a scraper that is sharp and suitable stripper you can do @ 1metre square per hour. And then the fiddly bits.

Not so critical for the hull exterior if it is paint., and you cn do a lot more on paint with fillers if it needs fairing. You may find a good scraper makes it good enough to varnish if you wish although a well finished outer paint, inside varnish I think looks very pretty.

If the decks are delaminating it is not worth trying to fix them They will delaminate because they already have and no amount of work will stop water getting in and finishing the job. Redecking is quite straightforward on a mark 1.
Michael Brigg
Rupert
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Re: Firefly Hastings, 1066 and all that...

Post by Rupert »

Used hot air blowers to strip Fairey boats many, many times, as have many other Firefly sailor I know. You need to sand the boat anyway, and I've never been aware of life of the wood being a problem.

Interesting that the boom has been sprayed. Maybe it was when the Proctor boom came in and they liked the look of it.
Rupert
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Ed
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Re: Firefly Hastings, 1066 and all that...

Post by Ed »

I'm with Rupe on the hotair gun. Normal Fairey Ply and the Agba are not the most colourful of woods and I havn't had any problems with using a hotair gun. In fact wouldn't dream (couldn't afford) to do it any other way.

Whether it would be right for the darker mahogany veneer used in Torment....don't know, but reckon I still would use one.

As for scrapers....they are a personal choice. I just can't get on with triangle scrapers at all. I keep one in the box for the few places where nothing else will work/fit, but find they are more likely to catch, dig-in or scratch than any of the others I use. My favourite by a long chalk are the stanley Tungsten carbide scrapers:

http://ebay.eu/1LZmt7o

More expensive, but certainly worth it.

Why we are giving you advice on scrapers, I have no idea why, since with two Tideways under your belt, somehow I doubt there is much we can teach you on the subject :-) But, hey maybe some others will be interested.

fwiw, I think you have a lot of discoloured varnish and stain on this boat and it will clean up very nicely.

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
Michael4
Posts: 504
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:25 pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: Firefly Hastings, 1066 and all that...

Post by Michael4 »

Thanks all,

It will indeed be a 'pleasure' to strip a boat that is neither clinker nor ribbed! I have a fine selection of scrapers, well used, and even some spare tungsten carbide blades (which seemed very expensive at the time).

I'd like to try and keep the old deck but need to wait till it has properly dried out to see if it is worth it. The outside of the boat is varnished and, I suspect, will always 'proudly show the scars' of a long life...

In due course I'll be begging for bits and pieces (and maybe cotton sails?) Many thanks everyone for the help and info, I can see life in the garage is now mapped out for the coming months...

Michael (who had better finish of the varnish on the Merlin first)
Tideway 206
11+
Sold the 'Something bigger and plastic', it never got used.
Michael Brigg
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: Firefly Hastings, 1066 and all that...

Post by Michael Brigg »

Ed wrote:I'm with Rupe on the hotair gun. Normal Fairey Ply and the Agba are not the most colourful of woods and I havn't had any problems with using a hotair gun. In fact wouldn't dream (couldn't afford) to do it any other way.

Whether it would be right for the darker mahogany veneer used in Torment....don't know, but reckon I still would use one.

As for scrapers....they are a personal choice. I just can't get on with triangle scrapers at all. I keep one in the box for the few places where nothing else will work/fit, but find they are more likely to catch, dig-in or scratch than any of the others I use. My favourite by a long chalk are the stanley Tungsten carbide scrapers:

http://ebay.eu/1LZmt7o

More expensive, but certainly worth it.

Why we are giving you advice on scrapers, I have no idea why, since with two Tideways under your belt, somehow I doubt there is much we can teach you on the subject :-) But, hey maybe some others will be interested.

fwiw, I think you have a lot of discoloured varnish and stain on this boat and it will clean up very nicely.

eib
This is not advice, it is opinion.

Here is a picture I took while scraping in which I did try a bit of hot air scraping....

http://s225.photobucket.com/user/michae ... rt=3&o=122

The bit outlined in red is hot air, and the bit below this is scraper + "Starchem" stripper, (A Dichloromethane paste product I got off ebay.)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Methylene-Chl ... 2eddb627c4

The hot air undoubtedly is quicker and easier, but even with very gentle use I was really disappointed by how much the surface wood appeared scorched, This did not clear when freshened up with white spirit.

Here is what I mean by putting "life" back into the finish. There is a kind of jewel like lustre if the wooden surface is fresh, if free and untouched by heat and UV.

http://s225.photobucket.com/user/michae ... rt=3&o=114

This is worth achieving if you are doing a "once in a lifetime" strip and intend to keep the boat under cover with a really good quality UV filtering varnish, although I accept that the"Streaky bacon" (varnish + a thin layer of wood)....

http://s225.photobucket.com/user/michae ... ort=3&o=89

can only be done so many times before you go through the outer veneer. :( :oops:

This is where the oilstone cones in. A really sharp unserrated edge is needed, A file will make the edge a bit serrated but a smooth stone is able to get a fantastically keen edge, and any good chef knows that you make fewer mistakes if your knife is sharp. An oilstone works on the Tungsten Carbide blades as well.

http://s225.photobucket.com/user/michae ... ort=3&o=85

http://s225.photobucket.com/user/michae ... ort=3&o=83
Michael Brigg
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